1) Tithing (giving 10% of one's increase - be that material or financial in nature) was in operation BEFORE the Law was given to Moses, because Abraham gave tithes to Melchizedek, who is a type and forerunner of Jesus [confirmed in Hebrews Ch 7 in the NT] - see Genesis 14:18-20:
18 Then Melchizedek king of Salem brought out bread and wine; he was the priest of God Most High.
19 And he blessed him and said:
“Blessed be Abram of God Most High,
Possessor of heaven and earth;
20 And blessed be God Most High,
Who has delivered your enemies into your hand.”
And he gave him a tithe of all.
In Psalm 110:4, God confirms that Jesus is of the same order as Melchizedek...
The Lord has sworn
And will not relent,
“You are a priest forever
According to the order of Melchizedek.” [NKJV]
To make sure we really understand this, Paul re-affirms this in Hebrews 4:10 and Hebrews 6:20..
10 called by God as High Priest “according to the order of Melchizedek,” [NKJV]
20 where the forerunner has entered for us, even Jesus, having become High Priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek. [NKJV]
Now, based on the fact that Abraham gave a tenth of the spoils (increase) to Melchizedek, who was the priest of God Most High, it appears that the requirement of tithing of our increase is a Kingdom of God requirement, that was established before the Law, and is therefore not a part of the Law, but of the righteousness of God.
In Hebrews 7, Paul clearly argues that believers in Jesus should also tithe of their increase, following in the footsteps of Abraham, whom God called "His friend", and that their tithe is given to Jesus, since He now stands in the role of High Priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek.
2) Whenever Jesus spoke about tithing, He commended it - see Matthew 23:23-, also Luke 11:41,Luke 18:12):
23 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith. These you ought to have done, without leaving the others undone.
The passage in Hebrews 7 confirms that Jesus is entitled to at least the same rights as Melchizedek, which means that we Christians are also required to give tithes to Him. This has NOTHING to do with the Mosaic Law.
God is the same yesterday, today and forever, He NEVER changes. If this is true, then the passage in Malachi 3:8-10 MUST still be true...
8 “Will a man rob God?
Yet you have robbed Me!
But you say,
‘In what way have we robbed You?’
In tithes and offerings.
9 You are cursed with a curse,
For you have robbed Me,
Even this whole nation.
10 Bring all the tithes into the storehouse,
That there may be food in My house,
And try Me now in this,”
Says the Lord of hosts,
“If I will not open for you the windows of heaven
And pour out for you such blessing
That there will not be room enough to receive it.
According to this passage, God regards the tithe as His personal property, and if we do not give it we are robbing God.
I don't know about you, but I certainly do not want God to accuse me of being a thief, especially since He has promised to bless me abundantly if I give Him the tithe.
The tithe is NOT an offering, and it should be given to your local church (see next point) where you are a member, since its intent is to support and provide for the apostles, prophets evangelists, pastors and teachers that Jesus has set up in the local church. These anointed ministers of God are Jesus' representatives here on earth for teaching and building up the saints for the work of the ministry.
It says in 1 Corinthians 9:1-14 that it is the right of an anointed minister of God, who stands in one or more of the 5-fold offices of apostle, prophet, evangelist, pastor or teacher to be paid for the work they do in their ministries:
1 Am I not an apostle? Am I not free? Have I not seen Jesus Christ our Lord? Are you not my work in the Lord?
2 If I am not an apostle to others, yet doubtless I am to you. For you are the seal of my apostleship in the Lord.
3 My defense to those who examine me is this:
4 Do we have no right to eat and drink?
5 Do we have no right to take along a believing wife, as do also the other apostles, the brothers of the Lord, and Cephas?
6 Or is it only Barnabas and I who have no right to refrain from working?
7 Who ever goes to war at his own expense? Who plants a vineyard and does not eat of its fruit? Or who tends a flock and does not drink of the milk of the flock?
8 Do I say these things as a mere man? Or does not the law say the same also?
9 For it is written in the law of Moses, “You shall not muzzle an ox while it treads out the grain.” Is it oxen God is concerned about?
10 Or does He say it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written, that he who plows should plow in hope, and he who threshes in hope should be partaker of his hope.
11 If we have sown spiritual things for you, is it a great thing if we reap your material things?
12 If others are partakers of this right over you, are we not even more? Nevertheless we have not used this right, but endure all things lest we hinder the gospel of Christ.
13 Do you not know that those who minister the holy things eat of the things of the temple, and those who serve at the altar partake of the offerings of the altar?
14 Even so the Lord has commanded that those who preach the gospel should live from the gospel. [NKJV, emphasis added]
In fact Paul goes further, and says in 1 Timothy 5:17-18:
17 Let the elders who rule well be counted worthy of double honor, especially those who labor in the word and doctrine.
18 For the Scripture says, “You shall not muzzle an ox while it treads out the grain,” and, “The laborer is worthy of his wages.” [NKJV]
It is clear from these passages of scripture that God expects (commands!) that His ministers are fed and provided for by the people who receive their anointed ministry. For anyone to say that the role of a paid pastor in today's church is one that scripture opposes is utterly wrong!!
This is the view now being promulgated by George Barna and Frank Viola in their new book "Pagan Christianity: Exploring the Roots of Our Church Practices". Just so that you see that I am not misrepresenting them, I quote from the book:
Note that we are using the term pastor throughout this chapter to depict the contemporary pastoral office and role, not the specific individual who fills this role. By and large, those who serve in the office of pastor are wonderful people. They are honorable, decent, and very often gifted Christians who love God and have a zeal to serve His people. But it is the role they fill that both Scripture and church history are opposed to. [Empahsis added]
You are also asked by God to give free-will offerings towards the ministry ("good works") of the Church - these are in addition to the tithe, and God will only accept them if you give them cheerfully and in faith, for as it says in 2 Corinthians 9:6-7:
"6 But this I say: He who sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and he who sows bountifully will also reap bountifully.
7 So let each one give as he purposes in his heart, not grudgingly or of necessity; for God loves a cheerful giver." [NKJV]
These offerings can be regarded as spiritual seeds, which, because this seed is eternal, never dies or goes bad, and will ALWAYS give a return if you speak life to it. Therefore you, just like any farmer, should expect a harvest from this seed, here and now, in this life - not just in the eternal future.
3) The purpose of the tithe today
As Head of the Church, Jesus has established anointed ministers of God, namely apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers to be in the local church, whose responsibility is to teach, admonish, edify (build up) and equip the saints (that's ALL believers) so that they, the believers, can do the work of the ministry. See [Ephesians 4:11-15]. Since it is obvious to all that we have yet to reach that place of
13 ...come[ing] to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ;
14 that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting,
15 but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head—Christ—
16 from whom the whole body, joined and knit together by what every joint supplies, according to the effective working by which every part does its share, causes growth of the body for the edifying of itself in love. [NKJV]
the role of the five-fold ministry positions must still be in effect.
To clarify, the only one of these 5 roles that has the job of overseeing or shepherding a local church is the Pastor. An Apostle only has an oversight role in those churches that he, or she, has personally been involved in starting. Nobody, who calls themselves an apostle, has the right to march into a church and demand that the Pastor be submitted to him, because he is believes he is an apostle and that is the way the church leadership is supposed to be structured. There is NOTHING in the NT that support that view. Even Paul himself acknowledged that he, as an apostle, was limited in his authority to those churches that he had helped to start - see Acts 1 Corinthians 9:1-2.
An apostle may clearly be identified as someone who has been called of God to start churches, and has done so several times (thus demonstrating he has the anointing to be an apostle), and who as a result has oversight over those churches, and provides pastoral oversight and advice to the Pastors for those churches. The apostle may have oversight over other Pastors in churches he or she did not have a hand in starting, but only because they have requested this, as a form of accountability and for guidance. The apostle still has no right to take over the control of a church under his authority unless the designated Pastor has resigned or been removed from his position due to inappropriate behavior or ungodly activities. Even then, the Apostle will (or should) endeavor to quickly find a replacement for that Pastor. An Apostle may also have one or more anointings to be a prophet or teacher, but these "gifts" are primarily for the churches he or she has oversight of, and occasionally for the benefit of other ministries, but only if invited to do so.
The role of a NT prophet is much different from that of an OT prophet. They have a specific calling from God to provide prophetic instruction to a local church, or occasionally to a wider audience, e.g meetings involving believers from a group of local churches, or at a convention of believers (it is VERY unlikely that an prophet will be called to minister the whole Body of Christ). Again, the prophet will be submitted to the pastor of his local church. Prophets do not operate independently of a local church. We, as believers are required of God to judge and validate any "words" given by a prophet, to make sure that they line up with the Word. The local church may choose to provide some support for this person, if their ministry takes them further afield than their local church. This would most likely come from the free-will offerings of the congregation, rather than out of the tithes.
A true prophet will regularly operate in one or more of the "utterance gifts", as described in 1 Corinthians12 - namely the operation of the "gift of Prophesy", which is the vehicle for the manifestation of either or both the "Word of Knowledge" or the "Word of Wisdom". They will often also operate in the "". This means that they are given insight ("discernment" means simply to see - with no connotations of judgment) into the realm of the spirit world, and can become aware of both good (angelic) and bad (demonic) spirits, as well as individual human spirits.
Please understand that these "gifts", or rather "manifestations of Holy Spirit" occur ONLY when the Holy Spirit decides - the prophet may choose to give or not to give these prophetic announcements - that is his right [1 Corinthians 14:32], but no true prophet would presume to consistently refuse the leading of Holy Spirit in these matters - they risk losing the anointing if they do so.
An evangelist should be sent out from the local church where he or she is an accredited member. Generally speaking, evangelists do not make good pastors, and it unusual for God to call and evangelist to be a pastor. A true evangelist will have a special anointing to preach the gospel, with sings, wonders and miracles following, in confirmation f the Word. The will usually operate in the "power" gifts of Holy Spirit - the "working of miracles", the "gifts of healings" (notice the plural tense), the "gift of special faith" (to distinguish this from every believer's "measure of faith" - see ), and sometimes the "Word of Knowledge" and "discernment of spirits". Basically, Holy Spirit will manifest these "gifts" in order for the effective working of the signs, wonders and miracles. Just as with Jesus' ministry, sometimes sickness and disease is the direct result of demonic oppression, and requires the working of a miracle to cast the demonic influence out of a person. This is where the evangelist can be given the "discernment of spirits" so that they know what to do. The "gift of special faith" comes into operation to allow the evangelist to have the faith to believe, on behalf of the person being ministered to, for example, for a limb or body part to grow back, or for a person who has suffered from the destructive effects of a disease such as leprosy, and God wants to not merely heal them of the disease, but wants to restore them to complete wholeness, by reconstructing and replacing missing body parts. He or she should be able to support themselves from the free-will offerings they receive from the group of believers they are ministering to. Their local church may also contribute, in the same manner a prophet may be supported.
A Teacher is someone who has the anointing to teach the truths of the Word to believers - again this person's ministry may be limited to a local church, a group of churches (probably under the oversight of an apostolic ministry) or as one with a wider ministry to a the Body of Christ, say at the national level, and who travels around from convention to convention teaching the Word to the believers in that locale. Antone who has a anointed teaching ministry to the Body of Christ should be able to support themselves from the free-will offerings they receive as a result of their ministry.
In ALL cases, the person who has the anointing to be a prophet, evangelist or teach MUST be a part of a local church, and choose to be submitted to the pastoral oversight of anointed Pastor. Note also that the "manifestations" are at the express will of Holy Spirit - any one of the five-fold ministries can find themselves in deep trouble if they try to operate these "gifts" outside of the direct prompting of Holy Spirit, and they run the risk of leading believers into error or worse. No one person has any or all of "the gifts" in permanent operation in their life - they are not the ones who decide when and where the "manifestations of the Spirit" happen - this is solely the decision of Holy Spirit. You will however sometimes witness someone who is called as an apostle, prophet, pastor or teacher, manifest any one or more of the 9 "gifts" as part of their ministry to the local church.
The Pastor stands in the office of overseer or shepherd, and as such represent the authority of Jesus over a local church. As such, he or she is the person to receives the tithes and free-will offerings from the local believers who attend that specific church or assembly on a regular basis.
It is VERY important to note that the pastor is the steward, not the sole recipient of these finances, which are to be used to carry out the work of the ministry - to pay for the building and its equipment and maintenance, to support the pastor's ministry to that church, so that he does not have to spend time working to support him/herself and his family, but can devote his time to the care and feeding of the flock. The pastor's role is not to dominate or tell the flock what to do, but to teach and admonish the flock in the ways of God, so that they are able to "come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ" [Ephesians 4:13].
It is for the pastor to determine, with help if he so desires from other ministers or godly people, what to do with the unallocated portion of the tithes and any unallocated free-will offerings - to give to missions, or towards the support of other ministries, as they feel directed by Holy Spirit.
So you can see that tithing is God's way of ensuring that individual churches are able to fulfill the mandate of the "Great Commission" and take care of themselves and their pastor (and any other person who forms part of the "full-time" work of the ministry in that local church (including administrative staff, etc.)).
4) God promises us a blessing "that there will not be room enough to receive" if we tithe regularly.
If you are not being blessed, try tithing. If you are lacking anything, start sowing seed (offerings) in faith (but NOT out of need), so that God can provide you with a harvest, and when you sew, tell God what you are sowing it for in faith (note: without faith it is impossible to please God) - be that health, finances, a vehicle, your future plans, etc. You HAVE to speak out in faith what you expect your harvest to be, because this is how it will come to pass - because this is how God operates - He calls those things that are not as though they were [Romans 4:17], and we are commanded to imitate God.
The real problem is that most Christians do not understand how the Kingdom of God operates here on earth. Jesus has delivered us from the consequences of the Curse of the Law - as described in Deuteronomy 28. So, if you are bedeviled (literally, since this is the source of anything bad) by sickness, disease, lack, poverty or any other evil thing, look at your actions and words.
Have you negated or blocked the flow of the blessings of God in your life because of your omission in paying your tithes and giving offerings to God - or have you done so in a spirit of grumbling and complaining? Have you been speaking words that do not line up with or agree with Scripture. God says that He wants us to be:
6 But this I say: He who sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and he who sows bountifully will also reap bountifully.
7 So let each one give as he purposes in his heart, not grudgingly or of necessity; for God loves a cheerful giver.
8 And God is able to make all grace [God's operational power to get things done] abound toward you, that you, always having all sufficiency in all things, may have an abundance for every good work. [2 Corinthians 9:8, NKJV, emphasis added]
I don't know about you, but I want to be always having all sufficiency in all things, and not just that, but having an abundance for every good work.
I pay my tithe, I give offerings, and I am VERY blessed by God, as is my local church, because we have understood that God does not say things He does not mean.
John
11 comments:
Yet another Great teaching John.
Mike
Bless you, John! Thank you for yet another 'right on' good teaching!
Blessings! (Mary)
John
I spent an afternoon reading a couple of websites due to the first one that was sent to me by someone close to me about my old college.
http://www.cedarvillesituation.com/
from there I went to a search engine looking for more information and found these two sites. I'd like to know what you think of the material. I respect you as an elder but must admit I don't agree with necessarily a lot of what you say. I do however enjoy your slant on things if you will because it gives me reason to think and ponder and dig deeper.
http://www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com/blog/index.php
http://www.sliceoflaodicea.com/
I thought of you and your careful instruction on the use of apostasy and how it really meant a falling away from. I think you'll find the sites interesting.
Hi John,
Good to hear from you at the cave.
I had a few questions that I was hoping to get your insight on....
Also, I ordered and have been reading the book you recommended by Kenneth Hagin - Tongues: Beyond the Upper Room. It's been great so far...very helpful in understanding the baptism and how to operate within it. I've been praying more and more spontaneously of late...while driving, when someone comes to mind, etc., not just during my daily prayer time. I have a real urgency these days. It seems I could walk around praying during all my waking hours!
Actually, while reading the book, the thought occurred to me that one of Satan's biggest coups has been getting the church to believe that tongues have ceased. If believers aren't operating with the power given them through the Spirit, then so much work for the kingdom has gone unaccomplished. I think that is a Biblical perspective, but wanted to get your thoughts on it.
Also, today you quoted Mark 16. I had 2 questions about the passage and wanted to know your thoughts....
verse 15: ..“Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature."
What do you think it means to preach to every CREATURE? I hadn't noticed that word before, but last week it caught my attention. Every creature? animals included? or just humans? It seems silly to ask, but I wanted to know what perhaps the original text says.
And verse 16: "He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned."
I've always understood that baptism isn't required for salvation. The first part of the passage states 2 conditions; belief and baptism. The second phrase of the passage only confirms 1 condition, belief. What's your take on that?
Hope all is well. I know you were preparing for a job hunt, I believe? Keeping you and yours in my prayers.
Blessings,
Jen
John,
I just came from the cave after one of the regulars on there told me about your wonderful comments on being filled with the Holy Spirit.
I have not been commenting at the site. I made the mistake of backing down from my comments regarding books written about fallen angels. I know John, that my warning was not generated by my own thinking. I was in the process of warning about the dangers before I read Lori's warning; then stopped my posting to check to see if anyone had said anything, found yours and Lori's and knew it was Holy Spirit orchestrated. That was 3 witnesses. It is not my intention to grieve the Holy Spirit, which I did with my back tracking.
I have repented of my mistake in this regard and I know that there are many voices out in the world today but I cannot and will not participate in open rebellion towards God's Holy Scriptures.
I know that most of the people have been told that being filled with the Holy Spirit is done at salvation and you know there is a whole lot more to it than that. We both know from experience and I take my walk and life with God very seriously. He gave us the Holy Spirit infilling so that we could live out our Christian walks in the authority of the the believers. Without the infilling and yes, the evidence of speaking in tongues, no man can survive in the fullness of God's purposes.
These are very dangerous days and rebellion against God and His Word is rampant. My heart cries because of the unbelief and for the pastors and theologians who have destroyed the power of the Gospel. We can and I will pray for all who are called by His name but are denying the power thereof. But John, just as Paul warned Timothy, in these last days, when the Gospel truth is spurned we are to turn away from them. They will be saved from the dread that is fast approaching but they could have been such a bright light to a dark and dying world.
Oh, Holy Spirit, cover my precious friend John, protect him and keep him inspired and enabled to share the truth with all of the blind and those who live in darkness without the truth. Make of him a light set upon a hill that all man kind will see it and escape the darkness to come. Amen
Shalom my friend,
Grany
Hi John,
Question about the Word of Faith movement....I'm struggling with this as I see the danger of it being associated with some New Age practices and Law of Attraction, etc. Harold just posted an article about Oprah and her occultic prctices at the cave and part of it mentions the Word of Faith practice of positive confession.
For a long time, I steered clear of Hagin because he was part of the WoF stuff but now that I'm fully on board with tongues and I view his book that I'm reading as being so helpful and Scripturally sound, I feel lost about this issue.
I mentioned something to my husband the other night about asking for safe travels the next day and expecting that God would give him that if he believed and hubby said I was starting to sound New-Agey. Truth be told, I sometimes wonder if I'm not! I REALLY want to stay on the straight and narrow but keep a teachable spirit at the same time. I don't know where to draw the line here...what is New Age practice and what is just Scriptural truth that people assume is too good to be true, so they write it off as unScriptural?
I don't think I'm explaining myself very clearly, but hopefully you'll know what I mean.
If you don't want to post this here, that's fine. If you'd rather reply to me at my blog, that would be fine, too (Use the "Walk this way" blog.)
Anyway, hope I'm not being a pest.
Blessings,
Jen
Jen, sorry it has taken so long to get back to you...
Regarding the "the Word of Faith practice of positive confession", this is very scriptural, PROVIDED you understand why!!
The deep issue here is that there is a basic principle at stake, which Go has established, that works for "whosoever" believes it - i.e. you don't need to be ca child of God for this to, work, as the New Agers have found out (the New Age book "The Secret" is all about this.
To paraphrase the Word, "you will get whatever you ask for, if you believe it", or "What you say (and believe) is want you get".
Note: this works both ways, for good or evil. Your "confessions" are what come out of your mouth, which are, whether you are consciously aware of of it or not, an outward expression of what you really believe in your heart.
The relevant scriptures are (both from the very mouth of Jesus Himself):
34 ... For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.
35 “A good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth good things, and an evil man out of the evil treasure brings forth evil things.
36 “But I say to you that for every idle word men may speak, they will give account of it in the day of judgment.
37 “For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.” [Matthew 12:34-37, emphasis added]
and
23 “For assuredly, I say to you, whoever says to this mountain, ‘Be removed and be cast into the sea,’ and does not doubt in his heart, but believes that those things he says will be done, he will have whatever he says. [Mark 11:23, emphasis added]
The New Agers tap into this, but for them it's all about how it's done through their own strength and inner spirituality, without any acknowledgment or understanding that this is something God has determined.
There is some very deep knowledge involved in this principle of making your confessions.
First, they MUST be based on what the Word of God says, not on what you see, expereince, think, hope for, pray for, ask for.
I am not totally sure that we should call them "positive" confessions", but you must SPEAK what you believe out of your mouth, for them to have any power.
The basic principle we must all learn to operate by is that EVERYTHING we do MUST be done in and through faith, since without faith it is impossible to please God [Hebrews 11:6]. Faith is the substance [you can replace this by the word "stuff" if it helps] of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. [Hebrews 11:1] Upon deeper study it becomes apparent that the basis for this evidence and substance (which is something tangible, real) is God's Word. Think of the use of evidence in a court of law that "proves"beyond reasonable doubt that a crime had been committed.
So, making a "confession" is standing on and believing in your heart and speaking out the Truth of God's Word for any given situation or need. This is the way we get saved in the first place - Romans 10:9-10. You must "believe in your heart" with no wavering or doubt - because that is not real faith, and then you must speak it out aloud - "make your confession of faith" [].
Only then does the power of God take effect in the natural realm.
I happened to watch today's "Believers Voice of Victory" program, and Billye Brim and Gloria Copeland were discussing this very subject. Billye Brim has some amazing insights into this whole issue of needing to speak out only what is in line with God's Word, if we want to live in the blessings of God.
One particularly important revelation she speaks of concerns the meaning of the root of the word in Hebrew (devar) for the word "word" - it means to "arrange" things - so we can literally "arrange" our lives by what we say.
Here is a link to the broadcast. I think you might find it helpful - its about 25 minutes long. You can also download the broadcasts for the whole of this week in both video and audio-only format - which if you have the time, will be a real blessing to you.
John
Hi John,
Thanks for your help with these issues and for taking time to reply. I feel badly about putting out that request, but I wasn't getting far in my own research and was getting more questions than answers. I'm coming to understand more and more that maturity in faith is a matter of yielding. It's hard because it often involves letting go of things we are very comfortable with or things that we don't even realize aren't Scriptural. That, of course, was my problem with tongues. Now it makes perfect sense and I wonder what other Truth I haven't yielded to. That, combined with discernment, are my main areas of focus now.
About angels, I have to admit I fall on the concerned side as I see the opportunity to be misled by a counterfeit. I have 2 experiences with angel visitations, neither of which I saw myself. In one (which I believe was a true angel from God), an angel appeared to my parents when they were in the middle of a terrible phase in their marriage. There was lots of trouble going on financially which led to emotional distance and my mom was ready to move out and apparently my dad had raised the question of divorce. They were lying in bed not talking and a light appeared near the footboard. They looked down and saw the angel and he told my dad "You will not leave this woman." Needless to say, they worked things out and are still married today!
The other encounter I believe was not an angel from God, but rather a deceiving spirit sent to an elderly friend who had lost her son several years before to a drug overdose. This woman was devoutly Catholic and her daily routine involved a trip to the cemetary to grieve her son and do penance for her part in not getting him help for his problems. She was so bound my guilt and every destructive emotion you can imagine that she was actually manifesting physical symptoms which the doctors couldn't diagnose. She told me that one night that as she was crying over her son (again, in bed), a small light came into the room and grew into a large image of her son, dressed in all white and smiling. He looked at her, but wouldn't talk. Then after a few minutes, the image grew small again and flew away. She wanted to talk with him so badly that she started reaching out to mediums and such, looking for a way to contact him. It also struck me that it wasn't an angel that appeared, but the likeness of her son. I told her that Scripture doesn't allow for the dead to return to the living and that she needed to stay focused on her relationship with God, not chase after contact with her son. To this day (a decade later), she still writes a yearly poem on the anniversary of his death and sends it with her Christmas card!
Well, anyway, I've got to run and get some stuff done. I'm hoping to post my "manifesto" about tongues later today. We'll see how that goes! Also, weren't you the one that says God has a sense of humor? Yesterday I was driving and listening to some praise music and Holy Spirit filled me up and I was singing along in tongues and tears were rolling down my face. And I looked up and saw a sign that said "Caution: road subject to flooding" and I laughed at the coincidence.
And what do you think about Lori's husband's dream? I thought it was quite interesting, considering all that's going on these days.
Blessings,
Jen
Hi John,
Thank you again for your teachings at the cave. Don't worry about those don't believe in Gifts of the Holy Spirit, you've planted the seed, as you did and now it's an issue between the child and his/her God. I have prayed fervently for the Gift of the Holy Spirit since you first discussed it months ago and I know that it will come when God is good and ready and not before.
I'd ask that you lay your (virtual) hands on me, that I too might experience the wonder of the Spirit you've so elegantly described.
Mike
Hi John, just wanted to come by and let you know I am still praying for your neck of the woods. John it is now over a year since I had that dream and it is just as real tonight as it was then. Every detail and every emotion gets stirred all over again just recalling the whole episode.
I found a web site that I thought you might enjoy looking at. The link is
www.yashanet.com/studies/revstudy/background.htm and it is a Messianic Jew doing the study. Very interesting material there and explains a lot of the back ground info from a Jewish perspective.
Just had to share with you.
Keep up the good work and we are getting closer and closer to that beautiful "come up here".
Grany
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