Is Prophesy for Today - a New Testament Perspective

In answer to a common question:
Now, if I look at what the Bible says: I was under the impression the gift of prophesy is the ONE gift we are no longer privy to - until the very, very last of days. Am I wrong?

In answer to your question concerning prophecy...

First, I have NEVER said that prophecy is not for today, or only for the "last days", if by that you mean the days just before the coming of the Lord as opposed to what the Word says they are.

First, please understand that "prophesy" in the Old Covenant came by Holy Spirit coming upon an anointed King, Prophet or Priest of God. Until after the resurrection of Jesus, and until after He had "breathed' on the disciples late on the same day as He rose from the dead, NOBODY had ever had the Holy Spirit living inside them.

Under the New Covenant, this has all changed, - people who have been "born-again" through believing and confessing Jesus as Lord (Romans 10:9-10) have the Holy Spirit dwelling inside of them, in union with that person's recreated spirit man - the "new creation" the Bible talks about. When we subsequently receive the baptism of Holy Spirit, and become "endued with power from on high", then according the accounts in Acts, we should then, as evidence, manifest speaking in other tongues, as the Holy Spirit gives us the utterances (words to say) (Acts 2:1-4).

N.B. this is NOT the same "gift" as that mentioned in 1 Corinthians 12:10, simply because this latter "gift" (more correctly "manifestation") of speaking in "diverse tongues" (along with the "gift" of interpretation) are manifestations that Holy Spirit gives, as He wills, NOT as we will. The tongue language you are given when you receive the baptism of Holy Spirit is different - you have complete control over when and where you pray in tongues.

Now, according to the Word of God - in the NT - (NOT my opinions), there is a "manifestation" of the Holy Spirit called "prophecy". (There are also the "Word of Knowledge" and the Word of Wisdom" - both of these operate through the manifestation of prophecy, under the direction of the Holy Spirit). Holy Spirit can choose to give such utterances to anyone who is willing and available to be used to operate in the manifestation of gift of prophecy, as defined according to the New Testament form of prophecy. The only qualifications are that they are "born-again" and have received the baptism of Holy Spirit, with the evidence of speaking in other tongues.

The Word of God also says that Jesus appoints "prophets" who are to operate within the framework of the local Church. If prophecy is not for today, then why would Jesus appoint prophets. This role is a "gift" to His Body.

This means that we should EXPECT, if our church is operating according to the method and prescription described in the NT (apparently problematic), to see/hear prophets giving prophetic words in our local churches. Paul also explains the purpose of this type of prophecy (including the manifestation of the gift of tongues and interpretation, which according to Paul (NOT my opinion) is the same as prophecy) - it is for edification and exhortation and comfort of the church, and is intended to give us revelation, knowledge, prophesying, and teaching. (Again NOT my opinion -
this is what the Word SAYS - I have deliberately not quoted chapter and verse, so that you can go and study and prove these things for your selves).

Therefore, from these statements alone (made in the NT, NOT my opinion), prophecy is very much "for today" - since the Church is still around. (If not, we are all in big trouble!)

The NT also tells us that the "spirit of the prophets is subject to the prophets", meaning he/she has a CHOICE as to whether they SPEAK the prophetic words Holy Spirit gives them.

Now,
according to Joel 2, God will pour out His Spirit upon all flesh, and "Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy".

This will occur during the "last days".

According to Acts 2, if we are to believe this account (it is in the Word of God!!), then according to Peter, what happened on, and subsequent to, the outpouring of Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost (BTW this is a Jewish feast day - not something invented by Christian tradition), when the disciples (all of them) spoke with other tongues, was a (beginning) fulfillment of Joel's prophesy.

Now, logically (not based on "opinions", "hearsay", or "I think this", or "it's my impression"):

1) If Joel was correct, and this was to be a major sign of the "Last Days";

and 2) Peter confirms this in his first "sermon";

and 3) the Book of Acts indicates that this was not a one, two or even three time occurrence;

and 4) we believe that we are in the "Last Days" now; (this is an opinion)

THEN

1) we should EXPECT to see similar things happening to day,

2) we should EXPECT to see people receiving the baptism of Holy Spirit, with the evidence (as per
Acts) of speaking in tongues

4) we should EXPECT to see people doing the same miracles and greater ones than Jesus did (not my opinion - Jesus said this)

5) we should EXPECT more and more angelic involvement in the spread of the Gospel, helping believers in their every day lives

6) we should EXPECT (according to Joel - who I hope you agree has been accurate so far) to see major supernatural events taking place in the Church - since Joel said that just during the "last days", i.e. in the days (months, years) leading up to the "Day of the Lord", God would pour our a double portion of His Spirit - Joel speaks of this as "the former and later rains together".

Now, basing our understanding on what we KNOW has already happened, and upon the belief (which I believe can be fully justified by Scripture) that we ARE in the last of the "Last Days", we should be able to correctly determine what we should be seeing now.

We have seen the "latter rain" (see Joel) outpouring of Holy Spirit(BTW this falls naturally in spring in Israel) at Pentecost - as per Peter's "sermon" (you cannot surely disagree with me on this - it's in the Word), we have seen the "former rain" outpouring - this was the outpouring of Holy Spirit at Azusa Street and the Welsh Revival, and at Pensacola more recently (you might disagree with me on this, but if so, we have still to see this part of the prophecy fulfilled), so, according to Joel (NOT my opinion), if we truly are in the last of the "Last Days", we should EXPECT the outpouring of Holy Spirit in a way the world has never yet seen - the "the former and later rains together", in its season, at the time of the harvest (Jeremiah 5:24) - i.e. in "a" September (early Fall) around the time of the Feast of Tabernacles.

We cannot KNOW the actual year, but I think we can have a pretty good idea, especially if, as in our church, God is continually speaking to us about it happening "very soon".

Now, if you want to argue that "tongues" and the manifestations of Holy Spirit are not for today, then logically, you are saying:

EITHER
1) the Word of God is unreliable, or worse, is lying

OR
2) that the "Last Days" were in fact 2000 years ago, and ended when the first apostles died, and we have gone beyond the "Last Days" that Scripture talks of.

OR (even more serious)

3) that God is both a respecter of persons, giving to one person something He will not give to another, and

4)that He changes His mind, and is no longer the same yesterday, today and tomorrow.

Logically you have to make a choice, because to not do so is to be unwilling or unable to rightly divide the Word, which means you can also wrongly divide it.

Now, either we are serious in our desire to really study the Word, and discover what it really says, or we just want to discuss our "opinions", what we "feel", what we may "believe", what we "think", what our "impressions" are, without reference to what the Scriptures actually say.

You CANNOT, logically (not opinion), have it both ways.

EITHER
we rely on our "feelings", thinking", "beliefs", "impressions", "traditions", other peoples "teachings" (including any I might have tried to present previously) as a means to judge what we see and hear in the Word

OR
we should be obedient to the Word, and study to make ourselves, individually, trusting that Jesus was telling us the Truth when he said that Holy Spirit would lead us into all Truth (which means you need to be able to hear Him clearly when He says "come this way"), approved of by God (not man), becoming perfect (mature) believers, no longer swayed or blown around by every wind of doctrine, not able to endure sound doctrine, turned aside to
fables, but rather we should be endeavoring to come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ, attaining to all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the knowledge of the mystery of God, both of the Father and of Christ, in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.

Furthermore, Jesus clearly said that the arrival of Holy Spirit, as described in Acts 2, has great advantages to us. Jesus said that it was only if Holy Spirit came "in power" upon us, would He be able to "lead us into all truth" and "tell us of things to come". Jesus also said that we needed this "power from on high" in order to be witnesses for Him to the ends of the earth.

In my understanding of the above, if that means that the Baptism of Holy Spirit is not an optional extra to put on and taken off like a rain coat on a rainy day, has a specific, evidential, visible result when I receive it (according to Acts), and enables me to operate in the supernatural - a prerequisite for the Great Commission (see Mark 16), AND, according to Jesus, I NEED it to be an effective witness - if so, then I want it - NOW!

Now, the real questions are:
Are you going to honest about what you believe, and whether or not it truthfully lines up with the Word, and act on it?

Are you going to study the Word, and believe it unreservedly and completely (which is a definition of faith, and remember, without faith it is impossible to please God?

OR, alternatively (and there really is no other logical alternative):
Are you going to continue to rely on your "traditions", religion, opinions, beliefs, thoughts, ideas, impressions and whatever, in spite of, or in contradiction to what the Word of God actually says?

It really is your choice. No one can make you decide, least of all God!

My main concern is that if you do NOT know what the Word says, and you are not learning to walk "in the Spirit" (the place, not the state), as we are COMMANDED to do by God himself, than when disaster strikes, be that from natural causes or terrorists, it will be too late to learn - you just won't have the time.

It is my belief that we are about to enter a time of great trouble and danger (just look to what has happened already in the US this year - tornadoes, extreme weather, flooding, mudslides, earthquakes and fires), which will make even the events in Burma and China pale in comparison.

If you are not able to totally put your trust in God, when all around you may be, literally, slipping away, and when getting even fresh water and basic food becomes next to impossible, when the basic necessities of life are not available to you, do you KNOW that you KNOW that your God will supply all of your need, do you KNOW how to get what you need from your storehouse in Heaven, and have it manifest here in the natural for you to use it now, or will you, like many Christians, suddenly find that your faith is like that of the man who built his house on the sand?

Remember, Jesus said that when we see such things as nations rising against nations, kingdoms against kingdoms, famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places, that this is only the beginning of birth pangs.

I've no experience of childbirth, except vicariously through my wife's experiences, but if the analogy of birth pangs is anything to go by, boy, we are in for a roller coaster of a ride, maybe literally.

Anyway,I'm not trying, in any way to say that any of us here are not "good" Christians, or that any of us are "better" than the others, because of our "knowledge" or "gifts", I am merely trying to show you what the Bible says, in the hope it might just help you, and in the worst case scenario, may literally save your life.

John

The Prophet Daniel's dreams and visions of the "Last Days"

This is a short (simple) explanation of the dreams and visions recoded in the Book of Daniel concerning the last days.

You need to understand these before you try understanding the book of Revelation and other prophetic writings that are about the events of the "Last Days" - the time in history we are right in the middle of, right now!!

Daniel says:
“But there is a God in heaven who reveals secrets, and He has made known to King Nebuchadnezzar what will be in the latter days. Your dream, and the visions of your head upon your bed, were these:

This great image, whose splendor was excellent, stood before you; and its form was awesome. “This image’s head was of fine gold, its chest and arms of silver, its belly and thighs of bronze, its legs of iron, its feet partly of iron and partly of clay. You watched while a stone was cut out without hands, which struck the image on its feet of iron and clay, and broke them in pieces.
....
This is the dream. Now we will tell the interpretation of it before the king. You, O king, are a king of kings. For the God of heaven has given you a kingdom, power, strength, and glory; and wherever the children of men dwell, or the beasts of the field and the birds of the heaven, He has given them into your hand, and has made you ruler over them all—you are this head of gold. [Babylon] But after you shall arise another kingdom inferior to yours [Medes and Persians - present day Iran - see Daniel 5:28]; then another, a third kingdom of bronze, which shall rule over all the earth [Greece, under Alexander the Great]. “And the fourth kingdom shall be as strong as iron [Roman Empire], inasmuch as iron breaks in pieces and shatters everything; and like iron that crushes, that kingdom will break in pieces and crush all the others. Whereas you saw the feet and toes, partly of potter’s clay and partly of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; yet the strength of the iron shall be in it, just as you saw the iron mixed with ceramic clay. And as the toes of the feet were partly of iron and partly of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong and partly fragile. As you saw iron mixed with ceramic clay, they will mingle with the seed of men; but they will not adhere to one another, just as iron does not mix with clay.

Conclusion: The last great empire was, and will be Rome - Rome has never been defeated, it's power and influence just faded away until the present time...

Another dream of Daniel, providing more information about the last days...:
In the first year of Belshazzar king of Babylon, Daniel had a dream and visions of his head while on his bed. Then he wrote down the dream, telling the main facts.
Daniel spoke, saying, “I saw in my vision by night, and behold, the four winds of heaven were stirring up the Great Sea. And four great beasts came up from the sea, each different from the other. The first was like a lion, and had eagle’s wings [Babylon]. I watched till its wings were plucked off; and it was lifted up from the earth and made to stand on two feet like a man, and a man’s heart was given to it [Belshazzar was King Nebuchadnezzar's son, who ruled at the same time as his father]. And suddenly another beast, a second, like a bear [Medes and the Persians]. It was raised up on one side, and had three ribs in its mouth between its teeth. And they said thus to it: ‘Arise, devour much flesh!’ 6“After this I looked, and there was another, like a leopard, which had on its back four wings of a bird . The beast also had four heads, and dominion was given to it [Greece, under Alexander the Great, and then his four generals, who took over when he died suddenly at the young age of 32]. After this I saw in the night visions, and behold, a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, exceedingly strong. It had huge iron teeth; it was devouring, breaking in pieces, and trampling the residue with its feet [The Roman Empire]. It was different from all the beasts that were before it, and it had ten horns.

Conclusion: The last great empire was, and will be Rome - Rome has never been defeated, it's power and influence just faded away until the present time... It will give rise to a revived empire, based on the same geographical area, but under the rule of 10 kings (horns)[see Daniel 2:40-43; 7:23-26]. Who might these 10 kings be?

The WEU, a 10 nation military and political alliance came into being as the result of the Brussels Treaty signed on 17 March 1948, just before the State of Israel was reborn (May 14, 1948) - this event being the key prophetic marker [Matthew 24:32; Mark 13:28; Luke 21:29] that the "last days" have really begun, and the countdown to the return of the Lord Jesus has started. It's manifestation was the beginning of the long and drawn out creation of todays European Union (EU). It is this group of 10 kings that now run the EU today, and provide its defense and security forces (the EU's army!).

(The Wikipedia entry for the EU shows how it came into being, out of the original Treaty of Rome agreements and its various prior incarnations as the European Economic Union (EEC) and the European Community (EC)).

The dream continues:
“I was considering the horns, and there was another horn, a little one, coming up among them, before whom three of the first horns were plucked out by the roots. And there, in this horn, were eyes like the eyes of a man, and a mouth speaking pompous words [The person who becomes the Antichrist].

“I watched till thrones were put in place,
And the Ancient of Days was seated;
His garment was white as snow,
And the hair of His head was like pure wool.
His throne was a fiery flame,
Its wheels a burning fire;
A fiery stream issued
And came forth from before Him.
A thousand thousands ministered to Him;
Ten thousand times ten thousand stood before Him.
The court was seated,
And the books were opened.
[The Last Judgment - see Revelation 19-
:11-16, 20:4, 11-15]

“I watched then because of the sound of the pompous words which the horn was speaking; I watched till the beast was slain, and its body destroyed and given to the burning flame [see Revelation 19:20]. “As for the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away, yet their lives were prolonged for a season and a time.

“I was watching in the night visions,
And behold, One like the Son of Man,
Coming with the clouds of heaven!
He came to the Ancient of Days,
And they brought Him near before Him.
Then to Him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom,
That all peoples, nations, and languages should serve Him.
His dominion is an everlasting dominion,
Which shall not pass away,
And His kingdom the one
Which shall not be destroyed.

Here we see the final victory by Jesus over the forces of evil, under the command of the Antichrist, and His establishment of the Millennial Reign of Christ on the earth.

Daniel has yet another vision - see Daniel Ch 8 (it's too long to post here, but, in essence, it just confirms the previous two dreams, and give more specific details. about them).

Key points:
v3: The ram with two horns represents the Medo-Persian kings Darius and Cyrus.

v5: the he-goat represents Alexander the Great, and the Greek empire he forged

v8: this predicts Alexander's sudden demise. He is replaced by 4 of his generals, who divided the kingdom between them (Cassander, Lysimacus, Seleucus and Ptolemy).

v9-11 Out of this situation came Antiochus Epiphanes (from Syria) - the anti-type (fore-runner) of the Antichrist, who defiled the Jewish Temple at some point during 171-164BC.

Daniel's vision then jumps forward to the days of the real Antichrist - see v11-14.

The rest of Ch 8 concerns the angelic visitation that Daniel receives, in order to help him understand the portent of the vision. The angel focuses on the very last of the last days, and describes in more detail the rise to power and rule of the Antichrist himself, giving a detailed time line of what will happen during the last 7 years before Jesus returns.

(If you are not convinced that the ram and he-goat are as represented here, you should read v20-21 of Ch 8. The angel actually tells Daniel who they will be - the ram with two horns is the Medo-Persian empire, the male goat the ruler of a Greek empire, followed by his four generals. He also shows Daniel about the the forerunner of the Antichrist, and how long Antiochus Ephinanes will remain in power after defiling the temple (2300 days)).

So, you can see there is no reason to consider any other "interpretation".

Finally, we come to Daniel's last major vision, concerning what is commonly called "Daniel's 70 Weeks" - Daniel Ch 9. Here the angel clearly explains that the vision applies to the people of Israel (NOT the whole world)- and that the Messiah would come after another 490 years (4BC?), and that the Holy City, Jerusalem would be destroyed for a season - which was just as Jesus also predicted, and which occurred in AD70, when the Romans leveled it - confirming absolutely that the "prince who is to come" (Ch 10:26), the Antichrist, would be raised up from out of this revived Roman empire at the end of days.

However, the remaining 7 years (2520 days according to the Jewish calendar, but since only years and not days are mentioned, it could be 37-8 days more than this according to our current Gregorian calendar) - would commence after Jerusalem was rebuilt - the text literally says "the squares and walls will be built again - but in troublesome times" - which we know started in 1948, but really began in earnest after 1967, when Israel took back control over Jerusalem for the first time in almost 2000 years.

The angel even says that, concerning Jerusalem and Israel, "even to the end there shall be war and desolations be decreed" - which has continued to be true ever since.

This last seven years would commence when the "prince" out of the revived Roman Empire would "confirm [or strengthen] a covenant with many" . To "confirm" or "strengthen" a covenant, it has to be already in place. It could be that this refers to the European Neighborhood Policy (ENP), but it might be a peace treaty with Israel's neighbors - it's not clear. In any case both seem to be possible right now, given the situation in the ME.

The angel then explains that the "abomination of desolation" that Jesus refers to in Matthew 24:15 and Mark 13:14, would be placed in the Temple halfway through this 7 year period - implying that the 3rd Temple will be built by then.

Daniel is very distressed by these visions, and by their explanation, so he cries our to God for more understanding.

In Ch 11 we see that Daniel receives another angelic visitor, who comes to give even more revelation concerning the dreams and visions. Much of Ch 11 is concerned with the events that lead up to the rule of Antiochus Epiphanes (the AC anti-type, who, because of Jesus' words, cannot be the AC himself, as some would have us believe), but at the end of the chapter it becomes clear that the angel is also referring to the rise (and defeat) of the Antichrist by Jesus Himself.

You need to be familiar with the history of the ME during the period from 500-4BC, to clearly understand and see how accurate the predictions given to Daniel actually were.

Lastly, according to Daniel 12:11, it would appear that Temple worship, complete with the daily sacrifice, must start some time before or just after the start of the confirming of the 7 year covenant, because the angel tells Daniel that the daily sacrifice will be "taken away" and the "abomination of desolation" set up midway through the 7 year covenant period, and that things will reach a climax 1290 days after that (that's just over 3 and half years), with a final promise that those who wait until the 1335th day will be blessed (v11-12).

So, it seems clear that the AC comes from some location that falls within the territory that was under the rule of the 4 generals that succeeded Alexander the Great, but within territory that is connected politically and economically with the revived Roman Empire - the EU (see the ENP map showing the economic and political reach of the EU at this time here).

(Note, the map does not show all the current ENP countries. The European Neighborhood Policy applies to the EU's immediate neighbors by land or sea – Algeria, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Egypt, Georgia, Israel, Jordan, Lebanon, Libya, Moldova, Morocco, Occupied Palestinian Territory (aka the PLO), Syria, Tunisia and Ukraine.)

It's all very straightforward.... you don't need to be confused, or wonder about where the AC comes from, and whether the EU is the revived Roman Empire or not, it's all in the Word.

John

Lying Signs and Wonders - How do we tell? - It's not what you think!

Regarding "discernment" in these times... and being deceived by lying signs and wonders...

Scripture tells us to be knowledgeable in the Word, so that we are able to distinguish between good and evil. [Hebrews 5:14]

In 1 Timothy 4:1-3 it says:
1 Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons,
2 speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron,
3 forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth.

This is speaking of people who follow after deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons. It also gives guidelines as to how we can identify these people - inveterate liars who are forbidding their followers to get married, and forbidding certain foods.

In 1 John 4:1-3 it says we are to test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
2 By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God,
3 and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world.

This passage tells us how to test the spirits of the prophets, and to judge whether or not their lifestyles and utterances agree with the Word (i.e. what manner of people are these prophets - like the FLDS cult leader, Warren Jeffs, or some of the other self styled messiahs or polygamous cult leaders?) - if they confess Jesus as Lord, they are of God, if they don't they are not.

One also needs to look at the fruit and lifestyle - polygamy, adultery, fraud, child sex, forced marriages, taking children from their mothers, requiring that they be worshiped - I think its pretty clear these people are not of God.

Now, concerning being deceived by evil spirits in these last days, with lying signs and wonders....

I cannot find anything in the NT that indicates that this can happen BEFORE the AC shows up. Afterwards is a TOTALLY different story.

We can be deceived by "empty words" [Ephesians 5:6]

We can be deceived by "persuasive words" [Colossians 2:3]

We can be caused to depart from the faith by giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons. [1 Timothy 4:1]. You can avoid this by knowing the Word. Some of the issues I have been bringing up, that concern the traditions of men and religion overshadowing what the Word clearly says, include such doctrines:
* that healing is not for today;
* God sends sickness to teach us;
* that tongues are of the devil,
* that the "gifts" of the Spirit are not for to day and any such manifestations are of the devil.

All of these are "doctrines of demons". Much of the Church has been deceived into not reading the Word, or not believing what it says by these doctrines.

We can deceive ourselves, by being hearers and not doers of the Word. [James 1:22]

We can deceive ourselves, by thinking we are religious and by not bridling our tongues [James 1:26]

We deceive ourselves if we say we have no sin [1 John 1:8]

It is only when the subject of the AC - the man of sin - is introduced is there any reference to being deceived by lying signs and wonders [2 Thessalonians 2:9-10]:
9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders,
10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

Note that the ones in this case who are being deceived are those who are not saved. There is nothing about the saints being deceived.

Jesus' warning in Matthew 24:24 is directed to those who are living during the Tribulation period, not before, which ties into Paul's comments in Thessalonians.

I don't think we have quite reached that stage yet.

In conclusion, this focus on the Church being deceived by lying signs and wonders seems to be a religious tradition, not backed up by the Word. It's a doctrine from lying spirits and demons, who are attempting to nullify the power and effectiveness of the Word of God.

In other word, as I have said before, the biggest risk of being deceived comes from not knowing what the whole counsel of God says, not knowing what the Word says, and being more receptive of traditions of men and religion than of the Truth - which, since we have the Word, is no excuse.

John

The "Great Delusion" of the End-Times

I keep hearing the phrase "strong delusion" when the Florida Revival comes up, as a justification that this is God sent, to bring about destruction (really). God is NEVER going to send destruction on His people, but the devil will try.

The latest is that this is a strong delusion, based on the verse in 2 Thessalonians 2:11:

11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie,
12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

HOWEVER, and please go read it for yourself if you don't believe me, this verse is talking about those people who are LEFT BEHIND after the Rapture, or at least for those who believe in the pre-trib rapture. The people referred to are those who are deluded by the Antichrist, because they do not believe, nor have EVER have believed the Truth. It is NOT talking about Christians AT ALL.

How do we know, because the previous 3 verse are about he Antichrist and his ability to deceive, and the fact that he has to be revealed before this great delusion comes.

I am not aware that the AC has been revealed.

To be honest, ANYONE who says stuff like this REALLY does not know God, nor their Bible - it's sad if it wasn't so dangerous. Many people will hear it and maybe miss something God has for them, out of fear.

People are all too readily quoting the Bible to justify a particular position - especially when they do not know the WHOLE counsel of Scripture, and take passages out of context, albeit in however a well meaning manner. It's just plain WRONG.

Again we see that traditions and religion have managed to subvert what the Word of God actually says.

John

The Role of Angels in Scripture

Everyone gets all bent out of shape concerning angels, PLEASE, study the
involvement of angels in the work of God through out the ages, as recorded in
Scripture.

Side note: I also believe, after some careful study, that pursuing knowledge (researching, reading books, getting teachings on the subject) on matters such as the "Nephilim" is very dangerous. There appears to be a whole body of knowledge and teaching within the Church on this subject - which is strange - since this subject is only briefly mentioned in Scripture, the term Nephilim being taken directly from the Hebrew in Genesis 6. To me it seems as if there is a concerted effort to build a whole doctrine around one verse in Genesis 6, based on the tradition that these "beings" were either fallen angels, or the offspring of such, produced out the union between fallen angels and women. I believe that this is an example of the "doctrines of demons" that we are warned against in the New Testament. My advice is to stay far away from this type of teaching. If you are interested in more about why I believe this, please read my post on the "Deception of the Nephilim"

Now let us get tot he core of this teaching I have assembled on the role of angles in Scripture, and in the life of the Church.

In 2 Chronicles 32 an angel cut down every man of valor in the Assyrian army. According to 2 Kings 19:35 this angel annihilated over 185,000 men in one night.

In 1 Kings 19 an angel cooked Elijah a meal, and fed him, twice.

According to Psalm 78:49, God dispatches angels of destruction at times to destroy Israel's enemies. Since we are under a better covenant, I do not believe it would be unreasonable to expect God to do the same for us.

If you read the book of Zechariah, he had a number of very close encounters with a number of angels, who spoke with him and prophesied over him, including the well know statement:


“This is the word of the Lord to Zerubbabel:
‘Not by might nor by power, but by My Spirit,’
Says the Lord of hosts. [Zechariah 4:6]

This was prophesied to Zechariah by an angel!!!

According to both Psalm 91:11 and Luke 4:10, God has placed angels in charge over each of to protect us. Small children, according to Jesus, have guardian angels, and we can assume that we all do also.

In Matthew 28:2 we see that an angel rolled back the stone in front of the tomb for Mary and and the other women to be able to go in. Two angels spoke to the women to tell that Jesus had risen [John 20:12].

In Luke 2 we have the account of the angels appearing and visiting the shepherds to
announce the birth of Jesus.

Angels were intimately involved in Jesus' ministry, from the time of His conception onwards, with angels appearing to various people involved in His life, (John the Baptist's father Zacharias,Mary and Joseph, Mary Magdalene, Salome, Mary the mother of James/Joses, to list a few).

Jesus told Nathanael:
“Most assuredly, I say to you, hereafter you shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of Man.” [John 1:51]

An angel rescued the apostles after they had been put in jail [Acts 5].

An angle appeared to Philip and told him to go down the road to Gaza to meet the Ethiopian eunuch [Acts 8]

An angel appeared to the Roman Centurion Cornelius, telling him to send for Peter [Acts 10] - as a result of this encounter, the first Gentiles joined the Church.

An angel brought Peter out of the jail, to prevent him from being killed by Herod [Acts 12]

Paul had a visitation from an angel whilst on the ship carrying him to Rome, just before it was shipwrecked [Acts 27:23]

According to Galatians 3:19, the Law of Moses was handed down via angels, which is confirmed in Hebrews 2:2.

According to Hebrews 13:2, some have unwittingly entertained angels.

According to Revelation Ch2-3, every church has its own angel.

In John's Revelation, he recounts how he interacts with many angels. He also visited the Third Heaven, whilst "in the Spirit" - see Revelation 4:1.

According to Revelation 14:6, angels will be used to propagate the Gospel during the Great Tribulation.

According to Revelation 22:6, God will send angels to us to to show His servants the things which must shortly take place during the end-times

As regards the Third Heaven, this is exactly where Paul also went - see 2 Corinthians
12.

The Third Heaven is where God resides - so if you are "in the Spirit" (the place), which we are commanded to be in - we are actually commanded to pray, live and walk in the Spirit at all times, this is where you can go.

So, without making any comment on Andrew Strom's report, I think it behoves us to carefull consider what the Word of God says regarding angelic visitations. If we really are in the last of the last days, which I think most of us agree on, I would expect not only that there would be a great increase in demonic appearances, but also that we would very likely see a correspondingly great increase in visible manifestations of angels.

I do not, repeat, do not think any one should go seeking anglic visitations, the enemy is only too willing to oblige, but if someone has a visitation, we need to be careful NOT to jump to the conclusion that it is of the devil, anymore than we should be saying that tongues and other manifestations of Holy Spirit are not for today, and as such are of the devil.

Remember Jesus' words:

28 “Assuredly, I say to you, all sins will be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they may utter;
29 “but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is subject to eternal condemnation”—
30 because they said, “He has an unclean spirit.” Mark 3:28-30]

The context of this warning is immediately following the Pharisees refusal to accept that the miracles Jesus was doing were of God - in fact they outright said that they were of the devil.

As far as Todd Bentley is concerned, if you research his past, he is a young man (late twenties?) who comes out of a lifestyle of drug and alcohol addiction. He was also delivered from a lifestyle involving criminal activity, youth prisons, drugs, sex, satanic music and bondage. and who was gloriously saved and filled with the Spirit, and who appears to be being used by God in miraculous ways. Anyone coming from that kind of environment is more than likely to look a little strange and have tattoos. We might think that facial piercings are ungodly, but before you judge a person, check out what the Scripture says about this [see Exodus 35:22]. Women wear earings - what's the real difference between that and a nose or chin piercing?

As Jesus said, if the tree is good, it will give good fruit. Todd is only a young man both naturally, and more importantly, in the Lord, and like all of us will make mistakes, get led off target by his flesh, but when was the last time you laid hands on someone and they were miraculously healed, or glorious saved when you preached the
gospel.

As Lori (Campsmore) reported, as well as my pastor, things are a bit wild in Florida - I personally would expect that - but people ARE getting saved, healed and delivered by the power of God.

Don't always rush to judge someone on the basis of hearsay, which much of Mr. Strom's report seems to be based on. If you really want to find out what is going on, visit Florida yourself.

John

Is the Baptism of Holy Spirit a separate experience form the New Birth?

This post is concerning the topic of the baptism of Holy Spirit and "tongues". I feel strongly that it is incumbent upon us all to discover what the Word says on the topic, and not rely on experience, or well meaning teachers who have no practical knowledge of the subject, or religious traditions that deny these things ar for today.

Note: apologies to all, this is a bit long, but please take the time to read it all - thanks

I commend you readers sincerely for your desire to study and understand the Word of
God.

However, I am confused by some people's logic concerning the Baptism of Holy Spirit (complete with speaking in tongues) and the New Birth being one and the same.

Let me try to explain.

If, as some say, the event in Acts 2, when the Holy Spirit was poured out on the first disciples,
and they spoke with tongues, also corresponds with being "born again", then, because God is not a respecter of persons (i.e. what He does for one, He must do for all), and if this account is supposed to show us, today, that this is what should happen when we too are "born again", then by that definition, most people who call themselves Christian are not!! Before you get all upset, please bear with my continuing argument.

The account in Acts 10, when the Gentiles first received the Gospel, also explicitly says that when they had received the gospel from Peter, they all believed and were then filled with Holy Spirit and spoke in other tongues. The account here is VERY clear that Peter and his 6 companions knew that the Gentiles had received the baptism of Holy Spirit because they spoke in tongues.

Again, making the assumption that being "born-again" and receiving the Baptism of Holy Spirit are one and the same, the pattern clearly would be that if we were "born again" by and through what the Bible terms the Baptism of Holy Spirit, this should be evident to anyone watching, because we too would speak in tongues.

On this basis, these two accounts clearly would seem, based on the above assumption, to
establish the biblical pattern for what to expect when we are "born again".

However, since in our experiences today, and I believe you would at least agree with me on this, it does not usually happen like this, our understanding and interpretation of what the Word says MUST be incomplete... or even incorrect.

Romans 10:9-10 says that in order to be saved = "born-again", ALL that is required of us is that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

This is simple, very straightforward, and easily understood. There is no mention of "speaking in tongues". So, either our understanding is incomplete concerning what the Baptism of Holy Spirit actually means, or we are all not "born-again" if we do not "speak in other tongues", as
some would (and do) actually teach (I AM NOT ADVOCATING THIS POSITION - I am
playing devil's advocate).

Since this is obviously the NOT the case, we must dig deeper.

We need to see where the first disciples became "born again". This must have happened at some prior time to the events in Acts 2.

Fortunately, the Bible tells us.

On the day that Jesus rose from the dead, after He had ascended to His Father, he returned to earth and met with the disciples, who at that time were in hiding in the Upper Room.

You will find, upon studying the scriptures, that in spite of the women (Mary Magdalene in particular, Salome, and Mary the mother of James/Joses - I personally think that this other "Mary" mentioned in the Gospel accounts was in fact Jesus' birth mother, since He had brothers named James and Joses) telling the disciples that Jesus was risen from the dead, they refused to
believe their eye witness account of the Resurrection, for which Jesus subsequently rebuked them for their lack of faith and unbelief.

John's account clearly says that at this time, in actuality at the end of that very same day, Jesus came amongst them and "breathed" on them and said to them "Receive the Holy Spirit". [John 20:22] At this point in time, the disciple MUST have been "born-again", since Jesus had clearly told them that no one could enter the Kingdom of God unless they had been "born again" of the Spirit. This event mirrors what happened in the Garden of Eden, when God "breathed" His
Spirit into Adam, and he became a speaking, living, spirit being.

(Side note: when Adam sinned, his spirit died; therefore, Jesus had to breath on the disciples to impart new life to their dead spirits, so that they could become part of God's family again - i.e. they were, at this moment, "born again" into the Kingdom of Heaven, just as Jesus had said would have to happen in John 3, during His conversation with Nicodemus).

Going back to the Gospel accounts, it is recorded that some 40 days later, just before Jesus' ascension, He instructs the disciples to remain in Jerusalem until they receive "power from on high", or as Luke puts it, until they had received the "promise of the Father and had been "endured with power from on high. [Luke 24:49, Acts 1:4]. Since the disciples had already "received the Holy Spirit" the same day that Jesus rose from the dead, you have to ask what is this "promise of the Father" that results in being "endued with power from on high". Given the time frame, they obviously cannot be the same.

Let us see what Scripture has to say about this "promise of the Father". In Acts 1:5 Jesus calls this the baptism of the Holy Spirit, and said it would come UPON them. Now, since they were already "born-again", since Jesus had "breathed" Holy Spirit INTO them some 40 days before, these are clearly NOT the same event. It is important to note the distinction between INTO and UPON to fully grasp what is actually happening.

Furthermore, in Acts 3:33, Peter confirms that the "promise of the Father' is the outpouring of Holy Spirit in power with the evidence of speaking in tongues, upon the believers, since that is what everyone in Jerusalem saw and heard (according to Acts 2:5-13):

33 “Therefore being exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the
promise of the Holy Spirit, He [Jesus] poured out this [the Holy Spirit] which you now see and hear.

If you look at what John has to say about the coming of the Holy Spirit, you see that:

(1) Holy Spirit was going to be sent by the Father,
(2) He could only be sent AFTER Jesus had returned to Heaven, to sit at God's right hand,
(3) It would be to our advantage that Holy Spirit came,
(4) He would testify of Jesus, along with us,
(5) He would be our Helper, Comforter, Advocate, Counselor, Intercessor, Strengthener,
Standby who comes along side of us
(6) He would lead us into all Truth,
(7) He will tell us of things to come

Now, according to Genesis 1:1-2, the Holy Spirit has been here on earth since the world was created. So, He was already on here earth during Jesus' ministry, so obviously, Jesus is talking about a different manifestation of Holy Spirit's work and ministry, that relates specifically to the ongoing work and ministry of His Body the Church, once He had gone away to Heaven.

Just to make sure we get this, Luke records that the command to remain in Jerusalem until they received the Promise is given to the disciples more than 40 days AFTER they had already received Holy Spirit WITHIN themselves, just before Jesus ascended again to Heaven, to sit at the right hand of the Father - Acts 1:8.

Then, in Acts 2:1-4, we see the promised outpouring of the Holy Spirit, with power, on the disciples - all 120 of them, together with the manifestation of the gift of tongues, as the Spirit gave then utterance (i.e. the Holy Spirit gave them the words - utterances - to say, and the disciples spoke them out, using their tongues and mouths - in other words they exercised their ability to speak, and spoke out the words that Holy Spirit placed in their spirits - Holy Spirit did not, as some teach, take them over, override their free wills, and cause them to speak in ecstatic
languages).

Clearly, Scripture identifies the process of being "born again" as a separate experience from receiving the "Baptism of Holy Spirit".

I have given two examples from the Scriptures where a group of people were first "born again", and then subsequently received the "Baptism of Holy Spirit", in both cases with the evidence of speaking in other tongues. Now, Scripture says that we need two or more witnesses to confirm something in the Word. In order to ensure we have received a proper understanding of these
matters, let us look at one more, specific example, where a person was "born again" and then, a few days later received the Holy Spirit, with the evidence of speaking in tongues (although in the account this latter fact is not specifically mentioned, but the person involved makes a statement later on that he had received the gift of speaking in tongues).

Go with me to Acts 9:1-19. Here is the account of Saul/Paul's conversion and subsequent receiving (infilling) of the Holy Spirit. Now, in v5, you see Saul already acknowledging that the person speaking to him was worthy of obedience and submission, because he called what at this point in time is just an unknown voice, "Lord". Then Jesus reveals to Saul that He is Jesus, and that Saul's activities against the Church are a direct persecution of Jesus. In v6 Saul acknowledges that what Jesus is saying is Truth, thereby admitting that Jesus had been raised from the dead, since He is obviously now very alive, and immediately submits himself to the Lordship of Jesus, asking what he should do next. Now, according to Romans 10:9-10, if you believe in your heart and confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, you will be saved.

It is obvious from this account so far that Saul not only recognized that Jesus had been raised from the dead, but that he was also worthy to be called "Lord", and more than that, he confessed this out aloud. In doing so he fulfilled the requirements for being saved.

So, Saul is now a "born again" member of the Church - he then continues on to Damascus. As we continue to read through the account, we see Ananias, an ordinary follower of Jesus (not an apostle or elder, just a believer like one of us) calling Saul his brother (v17), meaning that Ananias understood from his conversation with Jesus that Saul was now a "born again" member of the body of Christ, and should be treated as such - much to Ananias' initial discomfort and
misgivings.

Ananias then explains to Saul that he has been instructed personally by Jesus to come and lay hands on Saul for him to receive his sight, and to receive the Holy Spirit. Since Saul is already "born again" - which had happened 3 days previously, Ananias is about to used to do something
more - Saul is to "be filled with the Holy Spirit" (v17). So now Saul has been "born again" and has received or has been "filled" with the Holy Spirit. You could argue that what Saul/Paul experienced was not the same experience as the first disciples experienced on the day of Pentecost, but then you have to explain at what point when Saul/Paul received the gift of tongues that he claims in his letter to the Corinthian church "to speak more than any of you" (1 Cor. 14:18). You would also have to explain why Saul/Paul's experience is materially different from the other disciples experiences.

Now, and this is key to understanding the experience of the "baptism of Holy Spirit" as being distinct from the need to be "born-again" in order to enter the Kingdom of Heaven, Jesus, following his water baptism by John also received the "baptism of Holy Spirit". It says in Luke 4:1 that Jesus, being filled with the Holy Spirit, returned from the Jordan and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness. Jesus had to be "filled with the Holy Spirit" before he could commence his ministry. Jesus confirms this in Luke 4:18-19, when he declares that

"“The Spirit of the Lord is upon Me,
Because He has anointed Me
To preach the gospel to the poor;
He has sent Me to heal the brokenhearted,
To proclaim liberty to the captives
And recovery of sight to the blind,
To set at liberty those who are oppressed;
To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord.”"

Jesus, because He was "without sin", did not need to be "born again" of the Spirit, because His spirit was never dead in the first place (until He died on the Cross - but that's another teaching for another day). He had the Holy Spirit living in Him from the moment He was conceived. He did however need to have Holy Spirit come UPON Him to anoint Him for His supernatural ministry. Remember, Jesus laid aside His power and glory and became a Man when He was born, so He no longer had access to the omnipotent and omnipresent power and knowledge of God whilst he walked the earth as a man. As He said Himself, He could only do what the Father told Him to do, and what Holy Spirit empowered him to do.

We, as sinful humans, all need to be "born again" because we need our spirit man to be given life - every person born into the world since Adam has a "dead" spirit - i.e. a spirit that is not alive to God. That's why we need to be saved, and our spirit man made a "new creation" - when the Holy Spirit comes to live on the inside of us.

So likewise for Saul/Paul (and according to Jesus' own words and the accounts in Acts, for everyone else in the Church) - he too needed the "enduing with power from on high" - the baptism of Holy Spirit so he could start his ministry, with the Holy Spirit coming UPON him.

If Jesus, the first disciples and the Apostles, the first Gentiles in the Church, Saul/Paul needed this "infilling", "baptism", which ever you call it, of "power from on high", when the Holy Spirit comes UPON a believer - who by definition already has the Holy Spirit WITHIN them, why should we nowadays be any different or have no need of it? Are we, in effect, by saying we do not need the baptism of Holy Spirit, in fact guilty of telling God we don't need such supernatural gifts and power in our lives - in reality telling God we don't need such things nowadays?

In order to help clarify what the Word says, let me quote someone who presents the following argument against separate experiences of the New Birth and the baptism of Holy Spirit. They made the statement:

That clearly means that all believers have the Holy Spirit. If all are baptized into one body by the Holy Spirit but not all speak in tongues, it makes much more sense to me that the baptism of the Holy Spirit is an event that occurs when the Holy Spirit initiates faith at the time of the believer’s
salvation.

If this statement is true, then, according to the biblical accounts I have discussed, we should all speak in tongues when we get born again, since that is what happened in every case when believers received the baptism of Holy Spirit. Since it is clear from your own admission that you do not speak in tongues, by your own statements you are also implying that you are not born again, which statement is obviously, to all of us, not true.

Every believer receives the presence of the Holy Spirit WITHIN them at the new birth. But the Bible clearly teaches that there is also the experience of the Holy Spirit coming UPON a believer and "enduing them with power from on high". All the accounts in Acts indicate that this second experience is accompanied in every case by the believer being able to speak with other tongues.

I have tried to present a reasoned argument from Scripture as to why being "born-again" and receiving the "baptism of Holy Spirit" are two distinct and separate experiences for every believer. So, if you have not asked God to baptize you with Holy Spirit, so that you might receive "power from on high", I cannot more strongly recommend that you ask Him, and in faith receive, and open your mouth and allow Holy Spirit to give you your own supernatural prayer language. It will, I guarantee, revolutionize your walk with God.

John

Saying, Asking, Praying - how to pray the perfect Will of God

I am going to try and take a purely factual, logical approach to the subject of why we need to know God's Will when we are praying, based solely on the Word of God.

According to the Word:

Without faith it is impossible to please God [Hebrews 11:6]

Anything [deed, thought action, prayer] that is not from faith is sin [Romans 14:22]

According to Mark 11:22 we are commanded by Jesus to:
"Have the faith of God"

or, more literally:
"Have the God kind of faith"

As many translation do not usually say this, here is an accurate rendering of the original Greek:
"And answering, the Jesus is saying to them, "Be ye having faith of God"

So, what is the "faith of God"? It would seem that it is very important to know this, since, as given above, without this faith it is impossible to please God, and that anything that is not of this kind of faith is sin.

This is what the Word says!!! Wow!!

Fortunately, God gives us a comprehensive answer in just one chapter of the NT (and I am not speaking of Hebrews 11 - which just adds more practical details to this matter of faith)

In Mark 11:12-25 Jesus gives His disciples an object lesson in how the God kind of faith operates.

When Jesus is going up to Jerusalem, having spent the night with His disciples in Bethany (by the way, Jesus NEVER stayed overnight in Jerusalem, once He had started His ministry), He is hungry, and sees a fig tree in the distance (this is not a symbolic reference to Israel - it's just a fig tree).

He goes up to the fig tree to see if it has any figs on it, but there are none. So, in the hearing of the disciples He speaks (calls to) to the fig tree (here is another hint - God calls those things that are not as though they were), and says "Let no one eat fruit from you ever again." (v14)

At first glance, this seems a bit harsh, since the account tells us that it was not the season for fruit. Remember, however, that Jesus is setting up a visual object lesson on the God kind of faith in this situation.

He continues on to Jerusalem, with the disciples - who probably took no real thought as to what they had witnessed. Having "drive[n] out those who bought and sold in the temple, and overturned the tables of the money changers and the seats of those who sold doves", He then returns at the end of the day to Bethany. Some day!

The next morning He is again setting out, with the disciples, to go into Jerusalem.

This time, it is Peter who, obviously in great surprise, points out the fig tree they had seen the day before. It has dried up from the roots (v20). Peter cries out, "Rabbi, look! The fig tree which You cursed has withered away." (v21)

Now listen to Jesus' response to the disciples (which includes us!),
"Have the God kind of faith!" [Mark 11:22]

Now stop and consider what is happening. Jesus has spoken to a fig tree, and basically told it to die. It did! Within the space of 24 hours. In fact, it may have already been dead when the disciples, with Jesus, had passed by the evening before, but since it was late (and dusk falls early and quickly in Israel - between 6:00 and 7:00 pm almost all year round), it was probably too dark for the disciples to have noticed.

Now, when you consider Jesus' response, it is very remarkable. What did he mean? Well, we will see in the next few verses exactly what He meant. These verses are ABSOLUTELY critical to our understanding, if you want to have ANY understanding of how to operate in a God kind of faith-filled life - which we are commanded by God - through Jesus - to do so.

(Again, God NEVER asks us to do something that we cannot.)

Let's take them verse by verse, trying to show what the original meaning of the text actually says to us.

Mark 11:23
Truly [verily, assuredly, literally Amen] I tell you, whoever says to this mountain, "Be lifted up and thrown into the sea!" and does not doubt at all in his heart but believes that what he says will take place, it will be done for him.

I think this is one of the most amazing verses in the Bible.

First, it's not talking about prayer - this is covered in v24-25.
It's addressed to "whoever" - meaning this applies to anyone who follows the instruction in the rest of the verse. The do NOT have to be saved. ANYONE can do this!!

Notice that use of the verb "say". Obviously we must speak out what we want to happen, in order for it happen. Is this the God kind of faith?

Well, according Romans Ch4, Paul gives a very reasoned argument as to why Abraham, the father of our faith, was accounted righteous, made in right standing with God, by his belief (=faith) in God, and in what He had said. (You should go and read it - it's too long to be included here).

God had said to Abraham "I have made you a father of many nations." [Genesis 17:4-5]

This was said BEFORE Abraham had any children, and at a time in his life when, as the Bible puts it, he and Sarah were as good as dead, and beyond any natural ability to have children.

For as Paul puts it in Romans 4:17, it is "God, who gives life to the dead and calls those things which do not exist as though they did", and because Abraham believed the word of the Lord, it was accounted to him for righteousness. [Romans 4:3]

Well the same applies to us. If we believe the Word, then we should be as Abraham, who did not waver at the promise of God through unbelief, but was strengthened in faith, giving glory to God, and being fully convinced that what He had promised He was also able to perform [Romans 4:20-21].

(Note, for us to be able to believe God, and what He has said, we need to KNOW what is in the Word - if you don't know something, or know but do not understand, you cannot believe it! True belief is not in your head, it's in your heart, in your recreated spirit man. You can always tell what someone REALLY believes by what they say - as Jesus said, "out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks").

So, we see now that the God kind of faith involves the belief, contrary to hope, without wavering, that what God has said will happen. So if we are to have this same kind of faith, then we to should do as God does:

Call those things that are not as though they are, having an unshakable certainty that what we have said WILL happen, irrespective of our situation or circumstances, and in some cases, in spite of them.

I hope that you can now better understand Hebrews 11:1

"Now faith is the assurance [literally understanding] (the confirmation, the title deed) of things [we] hope for, being the proof of things [evidence, as presented in a court of law] [we] do not see and the conviction of their reality [faith perceiving as real fact what is not revealed to the senses]" [AMP, with some minor additions].

So, what Jesus is saying is that, in order to have the God kind of faith, when we speak to a mountain (a better explanation would be any apparently insurmountable obstacle blocking our path - whether that is any form of lack, sickness, disease, trouble, danger, etc.), we must:

1) first identify it - call it by name, whatever the mountain is, then speak to it to be removed (i.e. for the sickness to go, for lack of finances or anything else to be replaced with plenty - all sufficiency in all things, for natural circumstances to be settled and at peace - including the weather, the ground, etc.), and

(2)most importantly of all, BEFORE we speak, have already settled firmly and absolutely, with no shadow of doubt, fear or any other negative thought or feeling in our heart, not just in our mind) that what we are about to say has ALREADY happened.

(3) after we have spoken we must NEVER say anything to the contrary, whatever the situation or even the facts seem to be telling us, and we must continue, without wavering or doubt even crossing our minds, to believe that what we have said WILL come to pass.

Only then, according to Jesus will we have what we say.

(As an aside, this principle is what the New Agers and all those "positive thinking" and self-help" gurus are promoting - which is why they work, after a fashion).

Now, here comes the difficult part.

Jesus then moves on to the subject prayer, and how to get what you pray for from God.

Before we start to look at this, please go back and read all the above. if you do not understand it, you are going to get very upset by what Jesus says next.

"For this reason, I am telling you whatever you ask in prayer, believe (trust and be confident) that it is granted to you and you will [get it]" [AMP]

First, what does Jesus mean "for this reason"? What reason? The reason that, in order to receive what you are ask for in prayer, you MUST have already believed that you have ALREADY received what you are asking for, BEFORE you pray!!!

My initial, immediate reaction to that was "If that's the case, what's the point of praying? How can I know that what I am praying for I know that I am going to receive, without ANY doubt?"

In effect, what I really need to know, before I start praying for ANYTHING, is "What is God's Will for me in this situation?"

If you cannot answer that with absolute assurance, then you had better not pray, because you will not get it!

James goes one step further, and say that if you do not have faith (i.e. believe) in what you are praying for, you are a double minded man (or woman), unstable in ALL your ways [James 1:6-8], and according to Romans 14:22 you are not praying in faith, you are praying in sin! Whoa!!!!

Now, a common prayer that many Christians make tags the phrase "if it be Thy will" on the end, almost as a safety net, in case they do not get what they are praying for - they can then make the excuse that God does not want them to have it.

Oh, mankind! Why do we ALWAYS try to blame someone else, and refuse to take responsibility for our actions. It's the same sin Adam committed, back in the Garden We truly have not changed!

The only thing that Jesus says will hinder our prayer of faith, if it is done according to Mark 11:22-24, is unforgiveness - see v25-26.

Interestingly, in v25, Jesus says that it is only when we forgive someone else can God forgive us our failings and shortcomings.

Notice the word "shortcomings".

I have already mentioned this, but in Romans 8, Paul speaks of how the Holy Spirit will help us in our "shortcomings" - when we do not know how or what to pray.

The Greek word translated shortcomings or infirmities or weakness in Mark 11:25 is paraptoma, meaning "a side-slip (lapse or deviation), i.e. (unintentional) error or (wilful) transgression:--fall, fault, offence, sin, trespass", and in Romans 8: is astheneia, meaning "feebleness (of mind or body); by implication, malady; morally, frailty:--disease, infirmity, sickness, weakness".

You can see the obvious similarities, meaning that God recognizes our infirmities astheneia, and has provided the Holy Spirit as a means to help us overcome those, especially when we pray, because He recognizes that it is hard for us to come to that place that Jesus speaks of in Mark 11:22-25 by ourselves.

Please, please, now do you understand why I keep on insisting that we all pray in tongues, in the Spirit. Paul clearly says that this is the ONLY way we can guarantee that what we are praying is inline with the perfect will of God, and will therefore get an answer to our prayers.

Now concerning the phrase "if it be Thy will". Many Christians think that they are being very correct and spiritual when they tag this onto their prayers. But, as I have said, with one exception, this is not praying in faith, it's praying in ignorance of what the Word of God says, and will not get the desired response from God.

The ONLY time that this phrase occurs in the Bible is in the accounts of Jesus in the Garden of Gethsemane, crying out to God:

"“Father, if it is Your will, take this cup away from Me; nevertheless not My will, but Yours, be done.”" [Luke 22:41].

Jesus was praying what is called the Prayer of Consecration. God had required of Him that He go through the scourging, torture, abuse and finally the crucifixion. Now remember, Jesus was 100% man, and it would be unreasonable for His flesh to NOT cry out to God. Jesus KNEW what was going to happen to Him. He KNEW that this is what He had come to the Earth to do. But, understandably, His human nature was recoiling at the thought of the pain and suffering He was about to endure.

He KNEW what God's Will was - it was just the cry of His soul (not His spirit) to God that if there was any other way to complete his mission, please would God allow it, but that He would accept whatever God determined for Him and go through with it. By the time He left the Garden, He had settled in His spirit and soul to go through with God's perfect will for Him, whatever it cost. Nothing would shake Him from that determination. He had accepted, totally, God's perfect will for Him.

The ONLY time we can pray the Prayer of Consecration, using the phrase "if it is Your will" is when we are praying about God's plans and purposes for our lives. For example, it may be that we believe that God is calling us to the mission field, full time, in some distant land. Now, in our soul, we have a very strong desire to do this, but we want to be absolutely sure, before we get on that plane or ship, that this REALLY is God's perfect will for us. Please understand that God will not stop us doing something if we are really determined, but this would be a case of being in His permissive will, not in His perfect will. He will not override our will - if we decide to do something He cannot stop us.

I don't know about anyone else, but I want to be in God's perfect will for my life, not just doing something that I think is a good idea - it needs to be a "God idea".

So, you can see that praying "if it is Your will" is actually a statement of unbelief, unless you are praying the Prayer of Consecration.

Certain denominations (the Mennonites, Seventh-day Adventists spring to mind) most certainly believes that God can do miraculous healings today, if it is in His will and to His glory.

According to what Jesus says in Mark 11:22-24, unless you KNOW what God's will is, you shouldn't pray. If you do, you are not in faith, but in sin. If you want to know what God's will is, read the Word. But remember, faith comes by hearing, and hearing the Rhema word of God - the Logos has to become Rhema to you personally before it has any effect on your life. But having got the faith (assurance, substance of things hoped for, of things not seen), you need to, according to Jude 20, "build yourself up in your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit" which according to 1 Corinthians 14:4 means to "pray in tongues".

So, based on that, unless you TOTALLY, COMPLETELY, WITHOUT A SHADOW OF DOUBT believe the promises in Mark 16 that whoever believes in the name of Jesus "will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover", you should NEVER pray for the sick.

The question you may ask is "How do I know that it is God's will to heal someone".

Simply put, because the Word of God SAYS SO. God is not a respecter of persons. If He heals one, He HAS to heal another. Nowhere in the Word does Jesus ever say to someone, "It's not God's will to heal you." In fact, it says quite the contrary. As I said previously, Jesus makes it clear in the Gospels that receiving of healing for our bodies has EVERYTHING to do with our faith, not whether it is God's will - because it is ALWAYS God's Will.

However, and I hope all of you reading this agree, it is never possible, in the natural, to always know what God's will is for a particular situation, especially if it involves someone else.

This is where the instructions about praying "in the Spirit" can be applied. It clearly says that we CAN pray the perfect will of God, IF we pray "in the Spirit" - and I have shown that that means, amongst other things, praying in tongues. I agree it is not limited to praying in tongues, but if you do not start there it is VERY difficult to get in that place called "in the Spirit"

In answer to a Seventh Day Adventist's assertion (and many other members of mainstream denominations), that her denomination's statement of doctrinal belief states that "we also believe that the Holy Spirit will still bestow the gift of tongues, though we believe that this gift is used to proclaim the gospel in a known language." This is contrary to Scripture. Paul CLEARLY teaches that a person who prays in tongues is praying mysteries to God, that no one except God can understand.

"For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries." [1 Corinthians 14:2].

Furthermore, the statements of doctrinal beliefs of the Seventh Day Adventists concerning the "gifts" of the Holy Spirit to the Church are not totally in line with Paul's extensive teaching of the same in 1 Corinthians 12 - 14.

In 1 Corinthians 12:1-11 Paul writes:

"1 Now concerning spirituals, brethren, I do not want you to be ignorant: [Thank God He does not want us to be ignorant concerning the things of the Spirit!]

2 You know that you were Gentiles, carried away to these dumb idols, however you were led.

3 Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed, and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit.

4 There are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.

5 There are differences of ministries, but the same Lord.

6 And there are diversities of activities, but it is the same God who works all in all.

7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all:

8 for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit,

9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same Spirit,

10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues.

11 But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He [the Holy Spirit] wills." [1 Corinthians 12:1-11]

Clearly, from this teaching there are many diversities of gifts, differences of ministries, and diversities of activities, that are bestowed upon men and women. The Bible says that the gifts and callings of God are without repentance - He gives them, and does not take them away, and they are under the direction and control of the person who receives them.

However, as signaled by the word BUT in verse 7, these are DIFFERENT from the Manifestation of the Spirit, which are usually termed, inaccurately, the "9 gifts of the Spirit" - but are in fact not so much "gifts" but rather the manifestation - the evidence, the spiritual illumination of the Spirit. They are not "gifts" because they are not given to any one person on a permanent basis, for as the Word says, they are given as and when the Spirit wills. Man has no involvement in when or how these 9 manifestations occur. All we can do is cooperate and make ourselves available to be used by Holy Spirit in the supernatural manifestation of these things, in order that the Body of Christ might be edified - built up.

Now, if you have never seen these manifestations in operation, you will not be able to properly understand them.

Jesus gave the Church "gifts" - these were the appointments, in the Body of Christ, of apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers - the Elders of the Church [see Ephesians 4:11]. They operate in these callings by means of the manifestations of Holy Spirit - those identified in v7-11 of 1 Corinthians 12, and are empowered in these positions of ministry for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ. [Ephesians 4:12-14]

These are the "differences of ministries" under the same Lord, that Paul itemizes in 1 Corinthians 12:5.

Note that the "work of the ministry" is NOT what the pastor does (or any of the other "ministries" established by Jesus, it's what the saints (that's the whole company of believers) are called to do. That is why we should expect the supernatural manifestations of Holy Spirit to operate, to a measure, within every believer's life, as the Holy Spirit deems necessary. I know this to be the case in my life. One of my "jobs" at church is to run the sound and recording facilities during the service. It is intended that any words of prophecy that come forth, or tongues and interpretation, are recorded. I have learned to be guided by Holy Spirit to prepare for such moments.

A week ago, I knew not just that our pastor was going to give a tongues and interpretation, but I also had an understand of roughly what she was going to say a few minutes in advance. This particular event was unusual, as she gave a few sentences in tongues, complete with arm and body movements, then gave the interpretation in English, with the same movements repeated. It was quite an involved and extensive prophecy that came forth. I knew that we would likely have tongues and interpretation at some point during that service, because I have learned that, at least in our church, if we have visitors then this usually happens. Otherwise we are usually only having simple prophecy, Words of Knowledge and Words of Wisdom coming forth. This is quite scriptural, since Paul clearly teaches that tongues and interpretations are a sign for unbelievers - meaning those who do not know about or are unschooled in spiritual things. We also have spiritual songs come forth [Ephesians 5:19, Colossians 3:16] on a regular basis from several of the church members.

In addition, it says in 1 Corinthians 12:28:

"And God has appointed these in the church: first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, varieties of tongues."

The context refers to the operation of these ministries and activities [1 Corinthians 12:5-6] in the local church - it is not talking about individual believer's lives.

The list is in fact the same as that in Ephesians 4:11. The "miracles, then gifts of healings" are for the evangelist, helps, administrations refers to the pastor, and varieties of tongues has to do with the teacher of the Word. Paul explains what the "varieties of tongues" are designed to do: to give the Body revelation, knowledge, prophesy and teaching - see 1 Corinthians 4:6. For example, our Pastor has the ability to operate in the varieties of tongues during her Bible teaching, and gets on-the-fly revelation from Holy Spirit concerning what she is teaching from the Word. She also has a special annointing to operate in the gifts of healings - but again ONLY when Holy Spirit wills.

Furthermore, Helps are all those activities that have to be accomplished in the local Church, under the direction of the pastor, for it to function properly, which in practice includes, but is not limited to, ushers, greeters, the worship team (singers, musicians, worship leaders), book stall manager, media (overhead projector, sound technician, recording technician), visitations, help for the poor, prison ministries, etc, etc. - a real cornucopia of "diversities of activities". People have natural "giftings" that God gives to each person, to enable them to function in one or more of these "activities" that need to take place in the Church.

So we see that there are "differences of ministries", "diversities of gifts" and "diversities of activities". All involve people, and are necessary for the successful task of completing the "work of the ministry". As Paul says in 1 Corinthians 12:29-30, not everyone is "called " to be an apostle, a prophet, a teacher, and evangelist (worker of miracles), gifts of healings or bring forth revelations and knowledge through speaking in tongues. The latter gifts tend to be the province of the pastor(s), since they are the ones who are in charge in the local church, and can minister on a regular basis to their congregation, whereas the evangelist is usually out on the road, preaching the Gospel

However, all these are NOT the same as the manifestations of Holy Spirit, as listed in 1 Corinthians 12:7-11. These manifestations of supernatural power are available to any believer, irrespective of their calling to the ministry, or the giftings that they have received to enable to them to fulfill their God given roles in the local Church, but only as Holy Spirit wills.

Paul is VERY careful to distinguish between these manifestations and all other spirituals that God has given to the Church, because they are not given to anyone person on a permanent basis, rather to whomever is available and willing at any given moment.

Anyway, this is another penny's worth - I hope someone finds it helpful.

John

The Deception of the Nephilim

About 18 months ago, our pastors took us through a study of the spirit realm.

As you are aware, there has been tremendous interest in alien encounters, UFO and other such things in recent years. In particular, there is a great resurgence of interest in the Nephilim.

The New Agers have ALWAYS been interested in these beings, and much of their "theology" concerns the return to earth of what they regard as the descendants of the Nephilim, who, according to them, were aliens who visited the earth a while back, and gave Mankind lots of good and useful information. They expect them to come back in order to help Mankind move into the golden "Age of Enlightenment" that is, supposedly, just around the corner.

Christians have, down the ages, latched on to the concept of the Nephilim being the descendants of the union between fallen angels and the woman of mankind. They base this on the fact that these beings were of great renown, assumed to of great size - giants, and on the term "sons of God", which they believe refers to angels.

However, NONE of this is actually true, according to the Biblical record. I was asking the Holy Spirit why there is such a fascination with Nephilim, UFO's etc, especially at this time, and why Christians are so curious and interested in them, and why there is such a common agreement that the Nephilim were the offspring of "fallen" angels and women.

His reply surprised me at first, but then on thinking about it, I saw the logic. (I'll get to this later - you first need to understand what the Bible says about this subject)

You first have to go back to the Book of Genesis, where it first introduces what we call now the "Nephilim". You find that these beings are around before Noah's Flood, and yet appear to have subsequent offspring AFTER the Flood (Goliath and his family for one, although, according to the Bible, these were the last in the descendants of the Nephilim).

The word "Nephilim" is transliterated (NOT translated) from a Hebrew word nef-eel which has the singular tense, not plural, as inferred, incorrectly, by the English transliterated word. This has the meanings: distinguished (CLV), or a feller, i.e. a bully or tyrant:--giant, according to Strongs #5303. Strong links this to primitive root word naphal, deducing that the word nef-eel is derived from this root word. However, it is not clear that the word nef-eel is actually derived from this root word, as the meanings are too removed and not consistent - something Hebrew is renowned for.

The word naphal according to Strongs has the meaning to fall, in a great variety of applications (intransitive or causative, literal or figurative):--be accepted, cast (down, self, (lots), out), cease, die, divide (by lot), (let) fail, (cause to, let, make, ready to) fall (away, down, -en, -ing), fell(-ing), fugitive, have (inheritance), inferior, be judged (by mistake for H6419), lay (along), (cause to) lie down, light (down), be (X hast) lost, lying, overthrow, overwhelm, perish, present(-ed, -ing), (make to) rot, slay, smite out, X surely, throw down. -- Strongs #5307

The Concordant Literal Version (CLV), which is regarded as being the most closely, literal, translation from the original text of the OT, renders verse 6 as:

Now the distinguished come to be in the earth in those days, and, moreover, afterward, coming are those who are sons of the elohim to the daughters of the human, and they bear for them. They are the masters, who are from the eon, mortals with the name. (emphasis added)

It is clearly states that these "distinguished' ones were mortal NOT angelic on origin. For some reason, the word nef-eel has been translated to mean the "fallen ones", which is the opposite of the meaning of the original Hebrew. I believe there is a reason for this, which I believe Holy Spirit explained to me - as I will recount later in this narrative.

The Flood killed all but Noah's family (8 persons). However, the Bible says that ONLY Noah was righteous in God's sight - this means that his wife (although not entirely likely, since Noah was a righteous man and would not have married anyone from the unrighteous line), his 3 sons and their wives were probably not. The reason that this is a very reasonable surmise, is that Genesis 6 clearly states that is was because the "sons of God" (Seth's righteous line) were marrying the "sons of men" (Cain's unrighteous line) that God determine to destroy mankind and start over.

It can therefore be surmised that one (or more) of the wives of the sons of Noah were descended from the Nephilim (Cain's lineage), thus allowing that blood line to continue after the Flood. The Bible does not give the genealogy of the wives, so we cannot know for sure. But it would explain how the giants were propagated up to David's time.

The critical phrase is the term "sons of God". The assumption that these were angels is based, predominately on the accounts at the beginning of the Book of Job - which, as far as I can determine is actually the oldest book in the Bible.

(More correctly, the "book" was transmitted down through history as oral tradition - which was the normal way history and knowledge was transmitted in those days, and which was the standard way of maintaining knowledge between generations, until the written form of communication became more widely available. On this basis, you can regard the accounts in Job as actual fact, which God has ensured are still available to us, some 4000 years later).

Now, Christian tradition has assumed that the reference to the "sons of God" in Job 1:6 refers to angels, solely on the fact that:
1) God was there, and, more importantly (significantly?), or so it would seem
2) Satan was there.

This is solely deduced from the fact that all concerned were in God's presence, but from other accounts in the OT (notably that of Ezekiel Ch1), God's Throne can come down to the earth at any time. Therefore, you cannot categorically say that the events of Job 1 took place in Heaven, but far more reasonably you can say God came down in His Throne (probably to Mt. Moriah where Jerusalem is now), and the "sons of God", the righteous men and women, gathered before His Throne to worship and have fellowship with Him (because if you think about it, the unrighteous wouldn't want to be anywhere near God if they could help it).

Satan on the other hand, since his attempt to deceive Eve in the Garden of Eden, has been limited by God to the Earth (Genesis 3:14). In fact, when Lucifer and the 1/3 of the angels that sided with him were thrown out of Heaven (see the account in Revelation 12:7-9, which must have happened BEFORE Adam and Eve were created, since the passage in Rev 12 deals with what happened in the spirit realm, not on earth) and Jesus' comment that He had seen Satan fall (past tense - Luke 10:18) - also recorded in more detail in Ezekiel 28:11-19), Satan, as he is now called, has been permanently banished from Heaven, and has no more access to it. In fact, he is securely imprisoned within the earth's atmosphere (remember Jesus called him the "prince of the air", and the "prince of this world"), and cannot even venture out into the 2nd Heaven - the rest of the universe. (The 3rd Heaven is where God resides - where His Throne Room is).

Now according to Peter and Jude, the 1/3 of the angels that left their first abode (heaven) when they were thrown out of Heaven, along with their leader Lucifer/Satan, by God and the righteous angels, under the command of the angel Michael, have been reserved in darkness and in chains for judgment, so that they have no access to the earth, let alone heaven, and it is therefore impossible that they could be the "sons of God" in Genesis 4, especially since they had rebelled against God, and certainly no longer were righteous in God's eyes. Which means (and this upsets some) demons, such as the ones Jesus dealt with, are NOT fallen angels, but some other kind of spirit beings, that also live here on or in the earth. They must also be subject to Satan, in other words, he has the right to be their lord and master for some reason, but they are not angels. Furthermore, according to Jesus, these demonic spirits are always seeking a physical body, so it would seem that at some point in the past they had physical bodies of some sort which they lost. However, there is no definite account in Scripture as to where these beings originated from, or what form they took, other than being like us to a degree (they were not like us humans, since only we are created "in the image of God", even if they may have had a superficial resemblance to us), and who were spirits with a physical body, which they somehow lost. - one can surmise based on a number of passages in the Bible what may have happened - but this is another topic, which I cover briefly at the end of this article).

However, if you look in Job 38:7, God specifically refers to "sons of God" as those beings that existed BEFORE man, who sang and shouted for joy when God laid the foundations of the earth. This was before He had created Mankind to be His children, made in His own image. There were no other beings that God could call "sons of God" at that time, and nothing had ever been created before "in His image". This is the ONLY reference in Scripture that definitely calls angels the "sons of God"

I believe that this is why God created Mankind, to demonstrate to the angels (good and evil) and all other principalities and powers in the heavenlies and on/in the earth (see Ephesians 3:8-10), including these demons, that His way of righteousness was the only way, and that through this new creature Man, He would fashion a family (His sons and daughters) that would, by choice, chose to live for Him and with Him, in righteousness, throughout all eternity. We, the Church, will stand as a testimony to the power and grace of God for all eternity, that His righteousness will always overcome any sin and rebellion, however serious. This will be a perpetual warning for the rest of eternity, to all of His creation, as to the folly of rebellion and sin against Him.

In Genesis 1:27 we see that God created Mankind (man and woman) in His image, with the freedom to make choices between good and evil - our gift of "free will" - the angels were NOT created in His image, they were created by God to serve Him. Mankind was created as a spirit being, given a soul (mind, will intellect and emotions) with free will, and a physical body. There are no other beings like that in the universe.

One of the key differences between Mankind and angels is that Mankind have physical bodies, and were designed to have sexual relations in order to procreate. God create the ordinance of marriage solely for Mankind, specifically so that a man and woman would become one flesh, and so that they had a structure in which they could fulfill God's commands (in Genesis 1:26-28, 2:24 ) to go forth and multiply and take dominion over the earth.

Angels do not procreate. They have no ability to do so, in crude terms they have no sexual equipment. They cannot get married, as one of the primary reasons for marriage is the sex act (see Hebrews 13:4 - the term "marriage bed" translated from the Greek is koite from which we get the English word coitus, which has roughly the same meaning). Jesus makes this VERY clear in Matthew 22:30, when he said that in Heaven, there is no such thing as marriage - which was instituted for the first time for Mankind (for the reason given above) - it is deeply connected with who God is - His character and Being. It is only in the conjoining of a man and a woman in marriage, as the founders of a family (and the sex act is only the physical part of being "one flesh") do we see the full outworking of what it means to be "made in the image of God". That is why the enemy is so determined to destroy marriage and the family.

So, on the first count, it is impossible for angels to cohabit sexually with women, and have children.

There is a second, very important fact that must also be taken into account. When God created animal life on earth, He created them so that like would beget like - Genesis 1:25 - what botanists and zoologists call the "differentiation of species" (which Biblically speaking is called the "Law of Reproduction"), which is how they can categorize them (a the resultant tree like structure is called taxonomy), and determine the relationships between the various families of fauna and flora.

This is the biggest single stumbling block to evolutionists, because for their theory to work, there must be "transition species" where one distinct type of animal has successfully mated with another, different kind, to produce a new specie - no one has ever found such a specie, popularized by the term "missing link". For example, you cannot, in the natural, mate a dog with cat. You can mate different types of cats, or different types of dog and get offspring. You can even mate a horse with a donkey and get offspring (a mule). In the latter case, it seems that although there are significant genetic similarities between horses and donkeys, they are not of the same family tree, and the offspring are always sterile.

This is even more clear to us now, since the discovery of DNA, where we see that we can trace descendants of mankind over thousands of years through just a small sample of DNA (see the Genographic project being run by IBM and National Geographic here).

Thirdly, based on the Biblical record, the term "sons of God" is used in the NT to referee to those man and women who believe in and have faith in God, never angels. In fact God created mankind to be above the angels - a higher spirit life form, if you will. We replaced the angels as the "sons (and daughters) of God" the moment Adam and Eve were created.

Since God never changes, and the Bible always explains itself, the use of the term "sons of God" must therefore mean the same thing in the OT. If you take the position, that some scholars do, that the "sons of God" are in fact the descendants of Seth (Genesis 4:25 - 5:32), then the reference to the "sons of God" in the Genesis account in the time just before Noah's Flood must also mean godly, righteous men (and women).

It also makes sense that this is the case if you also consider Paul's statement that we, as believers, should not be unequally yoked to unbelievers (2 Corinthians 6:13). This is obviously a key requirement of God for those who would follow after Him.

The "sons of God" being righteous men, would have incurred God's displeasure and anger by mating with the unbelieving "daughters of men", who by definition were descended from Cain's line (see Genesis 4:17-24) (who by the way, NEVER repented of his sin).

It is this inter marriage between the two lines of Seth and Cain that caused God to decide to limit mankind's allotted length of days to a maximum of 120 years (see Genesis 6:3).

From these (illegal) unions were born the mighty men of renown - the Nephilim (which is the correct meaning of the original Hebrew). (See Genesis 6:4) However, God regarded the wickedness that resulted from these things of sufficient gravity that He decided to destroy all mankind except for Noah's family, in order to ensure that the blood line of Jesus (from Adam through Seth up to Noah at this point) was saved, not diluted anymore, and to eliminate as far as possible the destruction by the enemy of that line before Jesus could be born.

So, having, hopefully, shown that the "sons of God" referred to in Genesis 6 were NOT angels, we come to the question I asked Holy Spirit about.

"Why is there such fascination amongst Christians, and frequent dogmatic statements that the Nephilim were the descendents of the sexual relationships between women and angels, that demons are the fallen angels, and that UFO's and alien encounters are the result of or a reappearance of the Nephilim?"

The answer is very simple. Remember what Adam said when God brought to his attention that he and Eve had sinned by eating of the Tree of Good and Evil" his immediate response was "The woman whom You gave me to be with me - she gave me the fruit, which I ate". (Genesis 3:12)

In other words, Adam's response to having been found out was first to blame God, for having given him Eve, and then to blame the woman.

However, when you read the Creation account in Genesis 2, you see that God gave Adam the law concerning the tree of good and evil (v17) BEFORE He created Eve out of Adam. When Eve was created by God and brought to Adam, He established the first marriage, making Adam the head of this first new household of Mankind. Now according to what the NT says about the marriage relationship, a man is responsible for the welfare and maintenance of his family, both spiritual and physical.

Adam obviously did not properly explain to Eve concerning the rule that they were not to eat of the tree of good and evil. So, when Satan turns up, Eve has no real answer to his question, "Has God really said you must not eat from every tree of the garden?" It's almost as if she didn't know the answer. That is why God blamed Adam and not Eve. That is why God threw Adam out of the Garden of Eden, and not Eve. That is why God, in Genesis 3:15, prophesied that it would the Seed of a woman that would crush the Serpent (Satan) (women do not have seed - only men do, but since Eve was not the one guilty of the sin, just Adam, the redemption of the world would come through a woman, Adam and his male descendents having forfeited that opportunity).

Eve, in spite of the warning God gave her (in Genesis 3:16) that if she followed Adam, she should would be snared by her desire to be with her husband, resulting in grief and painful child birth, and would come under her husband's authority, obviously followed him out of the Garden, because we read in Genesis 4:1 that Eve has become pregnant by Adam and is expecting a child.

Now we come to the explanation of why the tradition of the "Nephilim" was started. I believe this explanation is direct from Holy Spirit, and I believe it is totally consistent with the whole counsel of Scripture. It is also very simple and straightforward.

The tradition that arose, from that time and ever since, that started calling the Nephilim the offspring of angels, came about because of the same basic reason that Adam tried to pass the blame onto Eve for his sin. Mankind, after the Flood, wanted to find some explanation (read excuse) as to why God had elected to destroy almost all of His creation. Instead of accepting that it was their sin (the sin of the righteous line sleeping with and having children with the unrighteous line), they came up with the idea that they could blame "fallen angels" for the situation, just like their father Adam did. If you think about it, Satan is the father of lies, and he would have no compunction about putting the blame on his fellow angels, if it meant he could maintain some form of deception over mankind that helped keep them from repenting and finding their way back to God. It seems that Adam's sin of trying to pass the buck, and his refusal to accept responsibility for his sin by lying, is deeply embedded in the human psyche, because this is still a major problem today. I understand now why Jesus called the Pharisees "sons of the devil" - they really were.

So, in conclusion, all this talk of alien invasions, Nephilim, fallen angels interfering in the affairs of men (with the exception of Satan, but one of him is quite enough!) is actually all just a deception of Satan. I do not believe there is any factual (biblical) basis for such things. Such things are constructed by the enemy to keep people believing the lie that was propagated by the survivors of the Food, to distract and confuse mankind, in order to prevent them from seeking out the one true God of Heaven. It also reinforces the lie behind the tradition of the Nephilim - which as you have already witnessed, has great credence amongst even spirit filled believers today.

However, I would add that there is an almost certainty that the events in Genesis 6 were actually orchestrated by Satan and his demons, NOT fallen angelic beings.

I do not believe demons are fallen angels, but some other form of evil spirit beings - possibly spirits of a pre-Adamic race that were Lucifer's subjects on planet Earth before the events described in Genesis 1:2 onwards. This is alluded to in Exekiel 28:11-19, but even more explicitly in Isaiah 14:12-21. In verses 16-17 in the passage refers to the fact that Lucifer (i.e. BEFORE his fall from Heaven made him into Satan) made the world as a wilderness, destroying its cities. Now either this has yet to happen (which some say is recorded in Revelation 12:7-8, and say that this will happen during the Tribulation period at the end of days, although how they can square that interpretation with Jesus' statement that He had seen Satan fall like lightning (past tense) - a direct reference to the passage in Isaiah 14, I cannot fathom), or, by virtue of the fact that Lucifer is now Satan, and had already fallen from heaven BEFORE the creation of Adam and Eve, then this passage MUST refer to something that took place BEFORE Genesis 1:2 and onwards.

It would also explain why the earth was without form and void, covered with water in Genesis 1:2. When Satan fell, he fell like lightning. A huge lightning strike unleashes tremendous power - and, in the case of Lucifer's fall, since he was one of the most powerful angelic beings of light ever created, the energy released by his fall would have been enough to utterly destroy the earth's surface, rendering it "without form and void" according to Genesis 1:2. If this is the case, then the passages in 2 Peter 3:5-7 are in fact referring to the destruction of the world that was occasioned by Lucifer's fall, NOT the flood of Noah (all the other times the Bible refers to a Flood - except Genesis 1:2 - there is a reference to Noah). In fact, the flood described by Peter states that it destroyed the whole world that then existed, and that the present heavens and the earth, were created by the Word of God and which are "now [being] preserved by the same word, are reserved for fire until the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men." - which is exactly what is described in Genesis 1.

Indeed Peter says that it is mankind's wilful forgetfulness that makes them not accept this fact!. I think Peter is actually referring to not just the destruction of the physical world, but also the then existing "world system", the political, economic, social and religious organizations, structures and beliefs). Jesus said that Satan was the "god of this world" - which, if Isaiah's account and Exekiel's account are to be accepted, he was ruler - god - of the earth at some distant time past, ruling over kings and countries, who were also physically destroyed when Lucifer fell from heaven. These beings were not the same as humankind, but seem to have been spirit beings with physical bodies, in the same sense that we humans are. It is their spirits that now manifest as demons, "seeking a body", according to Jesus.

If you consider Noah's flood on the other hand, a complete destruction of the earth did not happen at that time - first because Noah and his family was saved, second, within days of the flood waters receding, there were trees growing leaves - as confirmed when the dove returned with an "freshly plucked olive leaf" (Genesis 8:11), and thirdly, the year after Noah and his family had left the ark, they were planting crops again (Genesis 9:20). In actual fact, a vine takes about 3 - 5 years to grow to a point where it gives fruit, so this passage confirms that Noah was farming the land almost immediately the land was dry enough to do so. So, by most normal assessments, the earth was not totally destroyed, merely flooded long enough for evil mankind and the majority of the animals and birds and insects to be wipe-out - but the animal life forms in the Ark survived, as did the aquatic life. The earth (and its plant life) quickly recovered and was able to sustain both human and animal life within a matter of months, quickly enough that all the animals in the ark had food to survive on after they left the Ark, so that they could restart the natural birth-life-death cycle to repopulate the earth. You also need to remember that the earth's atmosphere COMPLETELY changed at this point - previous to the Flood, there was a "firmament" of water above and surrounding the earth, between the atmosphere and outer space (what the Bible calls the 2nd Heaven) - this fell to earth during the Flood, and now the earth has an atmosphere open to the heavens, that we are familiar with.

If this is the case, that the "Nephilim" were demon possessed humans, then we are likely to see a great increase in such things in these last days - not aliens, but ungodly, unrighteous evil men, empowered (possessed) by demons under Satan's control, who will come to power to prepare the way for the Antichrist and his rule and reign of terror and destruction (from out of the New Agers, Humanists and the like).

This is why I am convinced that all this talk of aliens, UFO's alien abductions, "lights in the sky" are merely a means to an end - the deception of large numbers of mankind, to ready them for the event of the Rapture (I expect that there will be an almost universal belief that the Christians have been abducted from the earth by the Nephilim - aliens). What is disturbing is the fascination by so many Christians in these matters today, as a means of explaining the UFO phenomenon - instead of searching what the Bible has to say.

Anyway, that's my take on all this stuff.

John